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Homosexuals in the Armed Forces.

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Should homosexuals be allowed to serve in the U.K's Armed Forces?

I am serving/have served and believe that they shouldn't.
29
35%
I am serving/have served and believe that they should.
20
24%
I have never served and believe that they shouldn't.
16
19%
I have never served and believe that they should.
18
22%
 
Total votes: 83

Guest
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daze and confuse

Post by Guest »

Also Spliff, im assuming you haven't read some earlier posts. But this started off with me saying "Homosexuality has never been nor will it ever be commonly accepted in ANY armed forces"...at least at the squad level. The highers can enforce policy, but its the NCO's who run the show when the s**t flies. Simple.
:cry: i can say much right now my head hurts ,im in constant pain= it took a dentist exactly 2 hours of constant work to pull a long rooted rear upper molar from my jaws he drill he cut bones he gave me a few more shots he pull and yank im still daze and confuse. and i can think of better stuff than Motrin 800 for the pain.................................................heres is something to pound on for the mean time. Decorated Veteran Challenges Army Dismissal
Wednesday, July 9th 2003
WASHINGTON -- Former Army lieutenant colonel Steve Loomis, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran and recipient of the Purple Heart, filed suit on Monday with the U.S. Court of Federal Claims challenging the constitutionality of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.”






The challenge is based in part on the recent U.S. Supreme Court opinion in Lawrence v. Texas which declared that the Texas sodomy statute violated the United State’s Constitution’s guarantee of a right to privacy. LTC Loomis is seeking to reverse his 1997 discharge from the United States Army.

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network (SLDN), which represented LTC Loomis during his initial discharge proceedings, said his case is the first of several likely to be filed in the wake of Lawrence.

"Lawrence has a direct impact on the federal sodomy statute and the military's gay ban," said SLDN executive director C. Dixon Osburn. "Under 'don't ask, don't tell,' the federal government regularly intrudes in the most personal aspects of our lives. That is wrong, and it is time for the government to change."



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Challenging policy in light of Lawernce v. Texas decision.
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Overview of this issue
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The U.S. Supreme Court has not ruled on the constitutionality of the military's sodomy statute or "don't ask, don't tell," but four appellate courts have upheld the policy.

"The legal landscape has changed since the earlier courts' rulings," Osburn said. "Those decisions were based in part on a view that the state could regulate private consensual sexual conduct under Bowers v. Hardwick," an earlier Supreme Court opinion upholding Georgia's sodomy statute that the current court has now overruled.

According to Pentagon statistics reported by SLDN, the Pentagon has discharged more than 9,000 service members for being gay since “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was first implemented ten years ago. Congress codified “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” into law in 1993 in response to President Clinton’s efforts to end discrimination against lesbian, gay and bisexual service members. The law requires lesbian, gay and bisexual service members to keep their sexual orientation an absolute secret or face the risk of discharge.

The Army discharged LTC Loomis, a former engineer war plans officer, for being gay eight days prior to his twenty year retirement date. As a result, LTC Loomis forfeited his retirement pension worth an estimated one million dollars. Each of the Army Colonels sitting on the discharge board that determined LTC Loomis’ fate called homosexuality “a sickness” or said they had “no tolerance” for homosexuality. Efforts to remove those officers from the discharge board for bias failed.

The Army based its discharge on a videotape seized during an arson investigation. An arsonist set fire to LTC Loomis’ home in 1996. Civilian authorities investigating the arson found the videotape, which depicts LTC Loomis in private adult consensual sexual conduct, and handed it over to Army officials. The Army used the videotape as the basis for discharge, ending the decorated veteran’s distinguished career.

this well make america proud and strong right?
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Redhand
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Post by Redhand »

Hey Spliff,

Sorry to hear about the tooth.

This article mentions he's a 'decorated veteran and recipient of the purple heart'. If the Purple Heart is supposed to be his badge of honor as the article applies (possibly deviously?), then he was essentially a nobody IN terms of decorated veterans. In vietnam you could get a Purple Heart for breaking your foot, or getting a shaving cut, almost literally. They're supposed to be for wounds, but near the end of the Vietnam war they started handing them them out to boost morale.

As far as what happened to him, im sorry, but i agree with that. He is a sick man who wasn't fit to serve.

As far as Clinton, ask just about any US serviceman and you'll get an earful about Clintons policies in the US armed forces.
"Don't mess around with the guy in shades at night" Corey Hart...and he means it too...
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Post by snyder »

Redhand wrote:I said decadence and no jobs
Goes deeper than that, too.
[i]To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just another attempt to disguise one's unmanly character; ability to understand the question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action; fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real man -- Thucydides[/i]
Kat =^..^=
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Post by Kat =^..^= »

Redhand wrote: Greek Americans who more or less debunk what Kat was saying.
Well I'm just Greek and an ancient historian by trade, so what do I know.

I've said all I have to say on Spartan soldiers, it is Common and accepted knowledge that they practised homosexuality from as young as 12, now if you get a couple of americans trying to re-write history, again, then it's up to real historians to set them straight, and again I refer you to The Spartans By Paul Cartledge whom is a proffesor of classics at cambridge university however if you prefer online reading than real books then please note below a couple of links, I'm sure they 'dubunk' your american greeks.


http://tx.essortment.com/greekwarriorsp_rwhv.htm

http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/ba ... 9a_p1.html

"Homosexuality," Plato wrote, "is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce."
Take Care and Keep Safe

Kat =^..^=
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Redhand
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Post by Redhand »

Kat,

I'm not trying to take away the fact that you have exclusive knowledge on the subject on the subject. I'm sure your very good at what you do.
But on the site it suggests if you have any refutaory evidence to send it to them in full with references.

You ultimately don't have to prove it to me. It would be interesting to see the outcome, and what they said. Tell ya what, i will provide your sources to them, and we'll see what happens.

But it should be noted, that they don't claim it never happened, that can't be denied. What they claim is it wasn't as integral or common as you suggest.

As for books, i stated before, i skimmed through several classical Greece books, and the issue of homosexuality was not brought up.
"Don't mess around with the guy in shades at night" Corey Hart...and he means it too...
Kat =^..^=
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Post by Kat =^..^= »

Redhand, I've sent you a PM as I believe any more discussion on the Spartans is off track to the original thread.

As for homosexual people in the military?

As for homosexual people in the medical proffesion?

As for homosexual surgeons?

As for homosexual engineers?

As for homosexual people?

Some how I don't think homosexual people join the military to get laid.
snyder
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Post by snyder »

Kat =^..^= wrote:Some how I don't think homosexual people join the military to get laid.
Oh, I wouldn't be so sure of that. No one can know all the motivations. "Getting laid" is something people in their late teens and 20s are pretty obsessed by whatever their sexual orientation. If you're a young male who fancies other young males, I'd say the military would have something of a draw for you. The issue becomes, "O.K., so what then?" I'd have to think that anyone joining the military to get laid would soon learn that getting laid is, at best, a peripheral activity.
[i]To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just another attempt to disguise one's unmanly character; ability to understand the question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action; fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real man -- Thucydides[/i]
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Redhand
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Post by Redhand »

Kat =^..^= wrote:Redhand, I've sent you a PM as I believe any more discussion on the Spartans is off track to the original thread.

As for homosexual people in the military?

As for homosexual people in the medical proffesion?

As for homosexual surgeons?

As for homosexual engineers?

As for homosexual people?

Some how I don't think homosexual people join the military to get laid.
Yeesh, and here i am hearing about all these stories of the lads going to 'brothels'...not my cup of tea. I wonder what excuses i will have to make...organizing my kit? Cleaning my weapon? I don't look forward to that.
"Don't mess around with the guy in shades at night" Corey Hart...and he means it too...
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