Ireland

[mutter nutter]

And the point everyone is missing is, we don't want them, what ever ideal's and principles the IRA had are long gone replaced with a mafia style organisation with conveniant political cover and we sure as shit don't want the loyalist's and unionist's we have a goood thing going here and the lot of them will just muck it up, now I'm not saying I don't want a united Ireland in the future but to be honest we have quiet a bit of growing up to do

[GD]

They do not have any grand designs on empire, no, just civil rights and an end to undemocratic partition of their own country.

Wow, that’s a rather romanticised view of the IRA as ‘ honourable freedom fighters’. The IRA and all their political and military offshoots are Marxist in ideology, the one thing they hope to achieve is a Marxist utopia for all. Look at who they trained and have links with - Hizballah, ETA, FARC, Red Brigades, PLO etc. - All cut from the same cloth and all Marxist-Leninist who’s aim is to overthrow democracy and insert their own ideology and build a new Soviet empire.

Civil rights? Hahaaaaa,I’m sure they were thinking about civil rights as they nailed some kids knees to a barn door or blew up sleeping babies in their prams. The IRA as civil libertarians takes the biscuit you must have an overactive imagination!

Ireland has never been a country and certainly never united, a year after the Battle of Hastings the Normans invaded Southern Ireland and before that the Irish were a bunch of tribes fighting each other. Ireland was never partitioned because it was never unified.

I am well aware, as I am sure(privately) many of these contributors are of Britain's horrendous, violent campaigns in Ireland over many centuries.

Grrr, Evil British Empire. Of course despicable acts were perpetrated in Ireland over the centuries, every country that has fielded an army has committed desperate and unsavoury acts, but even Cromwell (the worst offender?) in 1641 sent troops to Ireland to stop the Irish slaughtering each other. What makes the horrors of Ireland even worse is you viewing a 15th century (or 16th, 17th . . . ) massacre with a 21st Century morality and no understanding of the harsh realities of the times.

similar carnage in a 30 DAY period in Iraq

Claire Short would love this, much better to have left Saddam in power to kill 100,000 every year for another 10 years.

I am willing to reappraise our history . . . The future is a lot brighter than these particular nay-sayers would have us believe!

Revisionist, hand-wringing liberal stuff, screw it lets forget any idea of national pride and lets all bow our heads in disgrace once a year, lets have a day of atonement where we can parade our shame of Britain and Empire.

I hope nobody minds me sticking my neb in here but this is a subject I like to get my teeth into - even if I have arrived late for what is a almost a dead discussion?

For a start: Ireland was united under the five kings (four provincial chieftains and an overall 'king' at Tara) and running a civilised country with its own judicial system when the rest of the UK were still painting their faces blue and worshipping mistletoe.

Secondly: The IRB were never defensive of the Catholic faith in any way, shape or form. They were romantics who dreamed up the idea of a united Ireland when the entire country had been assimilated (by choice) into the UK.

The current IRA do not bear any resemblance to the old IRA and indeed are no longer the successors to the anti-treaty partisans of 1916. By renouncing key republican values and accepting seats in the Dail, Westminster and Stormont they are effectively traitors to their own cause.

As for Civil Rights. That particular movement was started to created civil disturbance in Northern Ireland by the Wolfe Tone Societies in order to create a situation where the old (official) IRA could start operations again.

The IRA IS a Marxist/Leninist movement which has, as its prime ideal, the establishment of an all Ireland socialist republic. In other words - if they had been given their own way in the North, they would have started on the South. They had already created a civil war in the Irish Free State in 1921 - which they lost.

They have no mandate - they never had and they never will. They have existed through trickery and deviousness.

I AM from Northern Ireland. I also served there as a soldier. I have no grievance against any man, woman or child, as long as they accept democracy and keep the peace. That means that if the North votes to become part of a United Ireland, I will accept it as a democratic decision and be content with my lot. If I don't chose to stay there then I am still at liberty to reside on mainland Britain. I WILL always be British.

If anyone wants to engage in lively, civil debate about this you are more than welcome. I'm 100% sure of any facts I have and I'm not above learning something new.