Punishment

[JR]

Back in the days of the age of sail,flogging was of course widely used as a form of punishment,and when we talk of not being able to 'swing a cat' in a confined space,this does not refer to the animal itself,but to the cat-o'nine-tails used in the Navy to administer a flogging.And to 'let the cat out of the bag' meant removing the dreaded instrument from the Red Baize bag in which it was kept.Men sentenced to flogging were spreadeagled over a gun to receive punishment.They were then said to 'Marry the Gunners Daughter'. OUCH!.Aye JR

Another saying that has crept into every day English Language.

[Tab]

What about the saying A son of a Gun. this came about when the good time girls came on board during the time of sail and one of them often gave birth during her visit. As this often place between the cannons that were the baby would be found abandoned and would be put in to a naval orphanage till boys could be sent to sea as powder monkeys, so they were know of sons of the guns.

[Mike]

The sentenced man also had to make his own Cat, so that he could not complain that the Cat was incorrectly made and thus cutting him too severely....... It is a myth that the tails were embellished with oddments or knots so as to add deeper cuts/wounds
Some Captains were ruthless and it was not uncommon for the poor Matelot to be whipped within a hairs breath of death... However it is said that Nelson, disliked flogging as a form of punishment on his ships.
As for Keel Hauling... As far as I remember, It was not a considered punishment in the RN....JR?

[kwew]

Thank god im only a young lad . but i suppose those punishments would be effective, I certainly wouldnt be stupid enough to repeat offend. Interesting to know where those sayings came from i'd didnt have a clue, but i suppose its true what they say you learn something new everyday.

[JR]

'Son of a Gun', was a juicy old Royal Naval Insult,the expression first came into use when women were allowed on board in home ports,scenes of debauchery used to take place on the decks of a Man-of-war.the gangways had to be kept free,and it was in the spaces between the guns that these scenes occured.'Hence to call a man 'a son of a gun' was equivalent to casting doubts on the legitimacy of his parentage,In the seventeenth ans eighteenth centuries and even early years of the nineteenth century,a certain number of Women were carried on board ship.These later were tolerated on board because they were the wives of well behaved men,the women had a definite use in action,helping the boys to bring up powder from the magazines during battle,Its also where the term 'show a leg' came from which has been explained before on these forums.At the battle of St Vincent and the Nile four women were on board the 74-gun ship the HMS Goliath,In 1952 a public house in Chatham was given the name 'Trafalgar Maid' to commemorate the women who fought at Trafalgar.In 1847 Queen Victoria ordered a Medal-known as the Naval Service Medal to be struck to recongnise the services by Her Fleets from 1793 to 1815,one woman claimed the medal and Bar for Trafalgar (Jane Townsend of HMS Defiance) her claim was disallowed by the Admiralty,no women actually received the medal,One recipient however,was a Boy who had been born in HMS Tremendous during the battle of the Glorious First Of June in 1794,his rating on the muster books was given as 'Baby'.His mother was the wife of a seaman named McKenzie,the child being appropriately christened Daniel Tremendous McKenzie,A true Son of a gun.Aye JR

[Sticky Blue]

Keel hauling was almost as bad as Hanging... I'm not sure when it was stopped but most died as a result. Being dragged under the keel of one of those big old oak hulls, covered in barnacles and other sharp objects cut the skin to ribbons. If they could handle being dragged over all that without shouting all the air out of their lungs they might survive!

[Mike]

Changing off the subject from punishment and onto Naval Sayings etc..
The expression to "Cold enough to freeze the Balls of a Brass Monkey" originated from the Gun decks of Man O'War's...In Battle the 'Boys' would hump cannon balls from the Hold, through the Orelop deck to the gun decks To assist them getting the balls to the cannons they had a Brass tray, similar to a small cake tray with 9 or 12 indention's in it, this enabled the cannon balls to be placed into the indentations building a pyramid of balls... and thence, being slid smoothly, along the wooden decks to the cannons.
Now when It was very cold the Brass would contract faster than the Iron of the balls....thus popping the balls off the brass plate.......which was known as the BRASS MONKEY
Back to you JR

[harry hackedoff]

Daniel Tremendous McKenzie, bet he wasn`t shy in the showers
Ref your scenes of debauchery, Jim, was this where "frigging in the rigging" comes from

[Wholley]

"Swingin'the Lead"
Best job on a Man-O-War entering harbor.
Leadsman would swing a marked line with a hollow piece of lead on the end and sing out the depth under the hull in fathoms.
The hollow in the lead would give an indication of the ground beneath the ship."Sandy Bottom"was always good for the Captain to hear.
Splice the Main brace,2-6HEAVE.Avast me hearties.AAARR,AArr,arr.Where's me tot then?
"Wholley the Navigator"

[sunman]

Whatever else do you think we would have
in our hand Loz?
I think Archie has gone down under again.
Seem to remember its about that time of year
for him.

Aye Sunman

[JR]

Yo Ho Ho,and a bottle of rum,and for all you non nautical types and a matter of interest,Dead Man's Chest which figures largely in the well know rhyme about old time pirates who sailed the Spanish Main,is an actual island in the Caribbean,and a well known fact that when the Royal Navy maintained a small force of warships in the West Indies,one Frigate finding herself in the vicinity of Dead Man's Chest,sent a party of fifteen men to land on the island they took with them the traditional bottle of rum, now that was a 'Banyan' (Hic).Aye JR

[Wully]

What about 'Canteen Socks'?

[Wholley]

Keel Hauling was usually beam to beam.
You knew you had really p*ssed off the boss if he ordered"Stem to Stern".
Gulp.
Wholley.