Sidearms

[rabby]

Do the RAF aircrew carry sidearms, if they do what are they??

[voodoo sprout]

Yup, it used to be the Browning but for some inexplicable reason they switched to the Walther PPK. Half the magazine capacity, half the stopping power... Perhaps there's a sensible reason in there somewhere. And it can't be a size issue, they used full size pistols for years and in fast jets, and other air forces still do - the I(sraeli)AF issue uzi's for crying out loud!

[rabby]

Maybe they felt that if they put their pilots out with PPK's they can boost their egos by pretending they are 00 special agents or something!!

Lets hope nobeody else gets issued with PPK's!!

[El Prez]

C'mon, these are crabs we are discussing. Half a mag or full mag doesn't matter. Name any crab you know who has ever been entrusted with ammunition! There told you so.

[rabby]

erm....eh... dammit he's right!!!

[Tommy M]

Sidearms, sidearms ??? I thought that is what the jockeys used to hold onto their joysticks !

The way our miltary aerospace industry ( or lack of a decent one ) is run
we may as well go back to shooting at the enemy with pistols from open-topped biplanes and lobbing 5-pounders over the side.

P.S. Weapons this ex-Crab ( but not a ex-Rock) has fired:

Browning 9mm - boring
Heckler Koch MP5 (what 30 rounds already ?)
MP38 ( or was it the MP40 ) anyway it's the one everybody calls the Schmeisser but had nothing to do with the Schmeisser ! Really cool !
Smithfield Armouries .45 automatic ( more jam than Hartleys)
Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum long & snub-nose (big noise, big hole)
9mm "Saturday Night Special" (I found it in the car seat in my cousin's Porche in the USA, it got stuck up my b*m)
Lee Enfiled .303 ( OWWWWW my bleedin shlouder hurt) - now thats what I call accurate !
GPMG & Bren (dakka-dakka-dakka and all that ) lots of pretty holes
Remington Lightweight US Police Pump-Action shotgun (better than a doorkey)
More shotguns ( alas no sawn-offs)
SMG ( probably easier to hit someone over the head with that one - kept jamming - quelle surprise)
SLR ( at last something that worked reasonably well)

[RAF Mancunian]

Wot was ur trade then Tommy if u were'nt a rock? I thought only Rocks got 2 fire that many diferent wepons.

[sittingstress]

Aircrew are issued the Walther PP not the K version. It is a pop gun and many wish they had the Browning back. In fact many wish they had MP5s but that will never happen as long as my bum point downwards!

[chunky from york]

The Walther PP fires standard 9mm Nato ammunition. The PPK (K= Kurz or short) fires 9mm short or .380 in old money).

Theoretically it gives the same stopping power in a smaller, more easily concealed pistol.

But the fact that James Bond uses one has a lot do with it. Though when I first read James Bond at the age of 16 I recall that he preferred the Berretta 380 and was forced to use the Walther.

The police kicked it into touch when Princess Margaret's ( or was the horsey one ) police bodyguard had a stoppage with one. Turned out he was not taking the rounds out of the magazine when he was cleaning it and the magazine spring froze.

[Batfink]

I recall that he preferred the Berretta 380 and was forced to use the Walther

Affirm on that one! He used a .25 Beretta and but in Dr No Q made him upgrade to a 7.65mm chambered PPK - "your Beretta has had its day"

Still not sure why we've accepted it as a side arm - why not take on a sexier weapon? MP5K? Or even a sodding Uzi?

Didn't they look at a cut down SA-80 Carbine thing for Tank Crews and Pilots...

SA-80 Carbine
Nice pics of the SA-80 Carbine (pdf file)

[Twenty One]

The Walther PPK 9mm I was issued with this weapon when I joined the Police,but found it utterly useless.We were then issued with a 357 magnum revolver,again the stopping power of this weapon depended on the ammunition.The best weapon I have used is the Browning 9mm, dependable,reliable,and could stop your assailant on the spot.I'm sure that their are a good few handguns out there now that are better.

[chunky from york]

twenty one,

The problem with the well loved and faithfully Browning is two fold.

First it is single action and can not (or should not) be carried with a round in the chamber and the hammer eased forward. Drop it on concrete and it might go off.
Second the safety catch is right handed and knocks hell out of your thumb if you fire it for several hours.

The us Bereta ( originally developed by browning as the BDA, Browning Double Action) overcomes these problems. But is not seen as very sexy, so there is a demand for Heckler & Koch, Glock (made from space age ceramics), Steyr etc etc.

There are fashions in fire arms as in everything else.

[Twenty One]

Chunky, I am only talking from experience about the browning.I have never fired any other automatic.When I was issued with the Ruger 357 mag,although powerful, it had it's restrictions and unfortunately for some of my former colleagues this was to prove fatal when it came to returning fire.I would have much preferred an automatic that was fairly lightweight and powerful to do the job.

[chunky from york]

Twenty one

The thing about automatics is they take a standard round. Wheras with revolvers the round can vary with fashion.

Although called a .357, its diameter is actually .38 so you can fire all those rounds as well, fortunately the magnum cartridge is longer so people like me can't load a magnum round into a .38.

But at the end of the day the experts are overuled by the accountants and when it comes to ammunition, the bloke at the noisy end gets what is cheapest.

[Sisyphus]

Gentlemen, Please!!

Rabby quite specifically asked do RAF aircrew carry sidearms.

Of course they do. Just like mine. One each side of my body. Rockapes also carry side arms. They're just longer than those of the rest of us.