1 parra no more

[commando-or-para]

i have heard a romour from a couple soldiers from different regiments that the first batallion of the parachute regiment (1 para) are not paras no more.. there now called the airbourn rangers..

apperently companys and platoons go missing for weeks on end on secret training programs with the SAS

is this true.. they are no longer 1 para

[Wholley]

i have heard a romour (1 para) are not paras no more.. there now called the airbourn rangers..

apperently companys and platoons go missing for weeks on end on secret training programs with the SAS

Keep listening to the"Romours"
They may even help with your spelling

[Tab]

There will continue to be 1 Para for a while yet, the title will change slightly to 1 Battalion Parachute Regiment then there will be an addition which as to yet has to be confirmed. It could be Special Forces or Ranger Unit. The idea behind all this ii that the SAS are short on the ground and they keep getting called off special mission for more routine patrol work in Afghanistan and Iraq. The idea of the Para's taking up some of this slack is that over 80% of the SAS are ex Para's and that 1 Para has been doing a lot of this work in Iraq with great success over the last few years so the mantle has fallen to them. Now I have been asked why not rotate this through all the Battalions but the problem is one of time and training, 1 Para will have about years training before they take up this role so it would mean that you tie up most of man power in the Parachute Regiment in training all the time. Once this is over then 1 Para will be moving to Wales.

[harry hackedoff]

Or you could save time and ask Royal
Be done properly then

[Tab]

Well Harry the Royals are all at sea I believe, what they needed was first rate ground troops.

[Leigh Dowell]

Well Harry the Royals are all at sea I believe, what they needed was first rate ground troops.

...and they still got lumped with the meat and veg
45Cdo provided SF force protection during the last Iraq war, and 40Cdo did the same in Afghanistan so it's misleading to say that the Paras have been doing it all but when it comes to the reorganisation of the Army it helps if the man doing it wears a red beret.
To quote the editorial in the Globe and Laurel-March/April 05(the corps journal)"the Royal Marines provide around 40% of the UK SF from a base of only around 4% of the armed forces in total".
Cheers Leigh

[Tab]

I didn't say they had been doing it all, what i said they had done a large chunk of this work very successfully. One has to remember that these units now get turned around a lot quicker these days. So there is a greater need for more special forces and the government is taking a short cut to get them.

[Leigh Dowell]

I'm not having a go Tab, UKSF painted themselves into a corner during the nineties(91-2003), every single job that involved getting dirty they took them, every direct action task that any infantry unit could deal with was theirs, so it got to the point that government believed what they said, you sow the seeds, you reap the whirlwind.
During any other conflict probably upto the Falklands if something needed doing it was done by the resident unit, all of a sudden it was standby and wait for ssshhh you know who..they'll deal with it.
Strangely enough when they find themselves carrying out company attacks in Afghanistan they wonder what they're doing there!
Every unit should be on the same page, it is not a black art, it's SOP's, why are they so scared that they are going to lose their role?
They are not, but why do they feel they need a "special unit" to look after them?
How is one battalion going to watch after all their tasks, all over the world 365 days a year?Answer: They are not(air lift a battalion to where they are needed at any moment, hang on that's spearhead/R1), which makes a farce of the whole thing, because if they have teams in Iraq, Afghanistan....(enter any dodgy regime you like) do they deploy a troop/company/battalion to look after them, just for one Op or for the whole deployment?
How did we win WW11? It wasn't Hereford backed up by a ranger unit it was the other way around.

[Tab]

There is very little resemblance between the conflicts of WW2 and the conflicts we are involved in these days. Most times there are no pitch battles but more of a hit and run war, where they hit you and run. Most of the time it is patrol work pure and simple, and at times you need specially trained units to do it. This work can be hard and demanding and not every Regiment is trained to same level, yes there will be people in every Regiment that could do this sort work, but could every one in these Regiments be up to same sort of tasks. Only the units that have a very stringent selection course are the ones who could say this, and there only a couple of units around that can claim this.

[harry hackedoff]

Leigh, those figures of 40% provided by 4% are official figures.
See recent comments by JR ref Gen Wacko Jacko and his fondness for all things Royal. Not.
The USMC have been down the same road about five years ago. They introduced a new level called S.O.C. standing for Spec Opps Compatible. Each of the Marine Exped Units has trained up loads of blokes for this role.Most of Elmer`s gravs in Afgan are SOC, for instance. Your point about UK SF claiming an ever increasing part of the pie is very dangerous. It plays into the hands of the defence mandarins who see it as justifying even more draconian defence cuts. "Why have an Army at all? Why not simply double the size of SF and let them deal with it "

[Tab]

No easy answer to that Harry, as I said I think they are try do more for less.

[longrifle]

The U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) feels that it is well served by having the 75th Ranger Regiment as it's in-house light infantry assault unit. SOCOM doesn't have to look to theatre commanders for a light infantry unit to back up Delta everytime there is a raid requiring both types of units.

This also saves SOCOM from having to use Delta for tasks like airfield seizure (if the raid force needs to be withdrawn that way), objective security, route security, reaction force, etc. Delta can dedicate themselves to the counter terrorist/hostage rescue assault role.

It's a proven concept, so does that make it the best option for the British Army? I don't know, only the British can determine what their operational requirements are, and it sounds like not everyone is in agreement.

I do think that in the coming years every army will have an increased role for light infantry units though, whether peacekeeping, fighting in built up areas, or counter terrorist.

[Hostage_Negotiator]

...and they still got lumped with the meat and veg
45Cdo provided SF force protection during the last Iraq war, and 40Cdo did the same in Afghanistan so it's misleading to say that the Paras have been doing it all

So how come every SF Mission in the Sandpit & Kabul in the last 2 years has had a Tactical Police Wing presence advising on and implementing their security! or do we not warrant a mention? Considering that we were requested by them this my beret's better than yours bullshit can blow one as far as this callsign is concerned. !!

[GD]

One thing's for sure, if a para bn gets renamed to 'Rangers' it won't be the 1st.

[Leigh Dowell]

Crikey HN that's a bit strong, but it validates my earlier point that the British forces do have assets in theatre that can deal with these things, my point about Royal was more that they were there and were used.
For my part it is a genuine interest as to how 1 bn is going to carry out all the supporting tasks that could be up and coming, if UKSF have a presence in Iraq & Afghanistan does that require 2 companies in theatre and the rest of the unit back in blighty on leave or retraining? If the press is to believed the UK are sending a large contingent out to Somalia to assist our colonial cousins, sounds like watch on stop on for the Rangers.
Plus company deployments for JWT & AWT, para courses for those yet to trained how to plummet.
I think the idea has some merit as it obviously works for Elmer but his SF is about as large as the British army.
The SBS used to have it's own force protection called 3 Cdo Bde and then all our berets were the same and better than everyone elses