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The American Civil War
Just blew yourself out of the water, Whitey. So 10% did own slaves, then! Which was part of the reason for the war, wasn't it?Whitey wrote:And people think these men sacraficed like this to keep blacks in cages. 90% of the Southern soldiers never owned a slave and lived in dirt floor shacks or Dogtrot houses.
The 90% were just the 'working class' cannon fodder that the elite have always used to fight their wars.
It was not only the slave issue, there was a wealth issue. A great deal of wealth had been built up by a number of people in the south and the American government had it's eye on the money. As the Northern states
had a large part of American government in it's control then they wanted access to this money. The Northern States had greater part of the industrial muscle of America at that time, but the Southern states were making a killing from the cotton being sold to Mills in Europe and their exports were far bigger than any thing the North could produce at this time industrially.
had a large part of American government in it's control then they wanted access to this money. The Northern States had greater part of the industrial muscle of America at that time, but the Southern states were making a killing from the cotton being sold to Mills in Europe and their exports were far bigger than any thing the North could produce at this time industrially.
Sisy,
Have you ever heard of the industial revolution? Slavery was over, Jeff Davis was trying to figure out how to free them without causing chaos. Slavery wasn't like your movie Roots. No Confederate Flag ever flew on a slve ship, and Grant and Sherman kept slaves for years after the war and after it was illegal. The war was over the Constitution. BTW are you a Marxist?
Have you ever heard of the industial revolution? Slavery was over, Jeff Davis was trying to figure out how to free them without causing chaos. Slavery wasn't like your movie Roots. No Confederate Flag ever flew on a slve ship, and Grant and Sherman kept slaves for years after the war and after it was illegal. The war was over the Constitution. BTW are you a Marxist?
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
Talking about the American Civil War, the one thing that really stands out is it changed war for all times. Nearly every aspect of modern warfare was developed there. They went from musket to self loading carbines and machine guns. From muzzle loading cannon to breach loading, it was the start of trench warfare and barb wire entanglements guns, the first successful use of a submarine, and the first clash of the steel warships along with the revolving turrets. Also it was the first time that hot air balloons were used to survey the battlefields and spot for the guns.
Whitey wrote: Slavery was over, Jeff Davis was trying to figure out how to free them without causing chaos.
BTW are you a Marxist?
I might be a Marxist. Would it help if I was? Does a particular political belief system alter facts of history?
I did say that it was 'in part' because of slavery. Wealth was an issue, too, but the main cause of the war was the Confederacy's wish to secede from the Union. But where on earth did you get the idea that Slavery was over, whitey?
Your history books must be different from ours. I thought the war was fought between 1861 and 1865, wasn't it? Lincoln didn't issue the Slave Emancipation Proclamation until 1st January 1863, freeing all the slaves in territory occupied by the Northern armies. So clearly, slavery wasn't 'over' when the war began. Nor was it completely 'over' until the Northern victory in 1865. And no doubt, as you say, some form of illegal slavery probably continued after that.
Essentially it was over. The industrial rev. was around the corner, machines were being fielded that were less expensive than humans and could do more work than 100 men. Davis banned slave importation during the war, and if you read into his presidency was trying to figure a way to assimilate those who wanted to stay and repatriate those who wanted to return to that jewel of freedom and democracy known as Africa.
What Lincoln did was not free the slaves really. He only freed the slaves in the South in his emancipation proclamation, much like Bush freed the Iraqi's, a false freedom. Then look what happened, Lincoln made everyone a slave to build his empire. Children were wished away to the factories to work 20 hour days, men were forced to move west for the expansion, slaving on railroads ect. Women also went into the factories. This was Americas dark age. States are Soviergn, but Lincoln didn't care as does his tyraniical federal government doesn't care. Our states were invaded against the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the ideals of the founding fathers. 600,000 of our people murdered when Sherman a slave owner made his march to the sea burning and killing everything.
Southern troops never did this to the north.
The slaves the northern troops encountered where given a choice to join the Union army as laborors or be shot. How is that for freedom?
Blacks fought willingly for the Confederacy, a large number from Creole plantation areas in Louisianna.
The war was fought for on reason and the same reason we have fought in every war since 1865, the Yankee has a meddlesome spirit, they cannot control their desire to control and regulate those who live in other states, regions and now countries.
When we lost the war of 1865 we lost our country, our constitution and our way of life. The bankers, the war profiteers and the same calibur of scallywag politicians we have today won, and they have sold their souls with ours to the highest bidder, are we then not slaves? Lincoln was a Marxist, he believed the only way to socialize and consolidate power was through bloody revolution. So if you are a Marxists, yes it does make a difference. Just like the Iron Curtian of Europe fell so will the invisable wall of tyranny in America. The head honcho's will find no joy in their New World Order. You cannot cage the free will of man that the creator has instilled in us all forever. Soon people in America will realize freedom is not having a high credit limit and low interest loans, it is being able to live by the Constitution without some creedy lawyer perverting it to make a buck or politician sidestepping it to get more power.
Medicare and social security on a state level is as socialist as I go. The dole as you call it, is nothing more than a handout, and that estinguishes the fire in the free soul.
BTW every socialist military adventure must have a suffering people at its core to be successful, the negro was the perfect face to sell the war for future generations. When was the last time the US or USSR had a war to free someone really? People just eat that crap up, war by the aggressor is always about money.
What Lincoln did was not free the slaves really. He only freed the slaves in the South in his emancipation proclamation, much like Bush freed the Iraqi's, a false freedom. Then look what happened, Lincoln made everyone a slave to build his empire. Children were wished away to the factories to work 20 hour days, men were forced to move west for the expansion, slaving on railroads ect. Women also went into the factories. This was Americas dark age. States are Soviergn, but Lincoln didn't care as does his tyraniical federal government doesn't care. Our states were invaded against the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the ideals of the founding fathers. 600,000 of our people murdered when Sherman a slave owner made his march to the sea burning and killing everything.
Southern troops never did this to the north.
The slaves the northern troops encountered where given a choice to join the Union army as laborors or be shot. How is that for freedom?
Blacks fought willingly for the Confederacy, a large number from Creole plantation areas in Louisianna.
The war was fought for on reason and the same reason we have fought in every war since 1865, the Yankee has a meddlesome spirit, they cannot control their desire to control and regulate those who live in other states, regions and now countries.
When we lost the war of 1865 we lost our country, our constitution and our way of life. The bankers, the war profiteers and the same calibur of scallywag politicians we have today won, and they have sold their souls with ours to the highest bidder, are we then not slaves? Lincoln was a Marxist, he believed the only way to socialize and consolidate power was through bloody revolution. So if you are a Marxists, yes it does make a difference. Just like the Iron Curtian of Europe fell so will the invisable wall of tyranny in America. The head honcho's will find no joy in their New World Order. You cannot cage the free will of man that the creator has instilled in us all forever. Soon people in America will realize freedom is not having a high credit limit and low interest loans, it is being able to live by the Constitution without some creedy lawyer perverting it to make a buck or politician sidestepping it to get more power.
Medicare and social security on a state level is as socialist as I go. The dole as you call it, is nothing more than a handout, and that estinguishes the fire in the free soul.
BTW every socialist military adventure must have a suffering people at its core to be successful, the negro was the perfect face to sell the war for future generations. When was the last time the US or USSR had a war to free someone really? People just eat that crap up, war by the aggressor is always about money.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
Wow, whitey! You've got one of the wierdest slant on history I've ever read.Whitey wrote:
1. Essentially it was over.
2. Then look what happened, Lincoln made everyone a slave to build his empire. Children were wished away to the factories to work 20 hour days, men were forced to move west for the expansion, slaving on railroads ect. Women also went into the factories.
3. Southern troops never did this to the north.
4. Lincoln was a Marxist
1. I bet not one slave thought it was 'essentially over'. You can use slaves to run factories, you know. The industrial revolution was never going to be the catalyst whereby Southerners would free slaves. If they had the only reason they would is so the wouldn't have to feed them any more.
And don't forget the Northern government offered to purchase the freedom of slaves in the slave states that remained loyal - Kentucky, West Virginian and Missouri. If it was 'over' no payment would have been necessary
2. A Marxist with an empire. Now there's a novel concept. By the way, Lincoln was elected by a large majority in May 1860, then re-elected in 1864 he was held in such reverence. So the US was a Marxist state then!? Ouch! sorry, just fell off my chair laughing! Actually, what you described sounds just like the worst excesses of Capitalism to me. So maybe he was the ultimate capitalist?
3. No, course not. They lost. Who knows what would have happened if they'd have won.
4. Lincoln a Marxist.
You crease me up! "Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal...... and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth. "
Doesn't sound remotely Marxist to me. Oh, hang on. 'All men are created equal.." Is that where you get it from? Maybe it doesn't fit with your idea of Aryan supremacy?
Oh, and the 'empire bit'. Give us a break. Democratically elected presidents don't get empires - at least not by any sensible definition of the word. And don't US presidents only serve two terms anyway?
Not all men are created equal. Just equal under the law and their creator. Criminal law that is.
Slaves freed, remained on the plantations after the war anyway. And besides, those who would live as slaves should be slaves. The Gettysburg Adress and the Emancipation Proclamation were mere propaganda poems.
Yes socialists have Empires, did not the soviets have an Empire? So do we.
Am I a white supremisist? No, color doesn't pull my mad dog chain, people who tinker with the Constitution do. The South never wanted to control the North, just to be left alone. The only thing that changed in that war was the effectiveness of the Constitution as a safeguard to freedom, and a mass exchange of wealth from the south to the North.
I have nothing against the blacks, it wasn't their fault they were used as a front to justify killing of citizens on a Milosovich scale, nor was it their fault for being used in the civil rights movement. The reality is today the slave issue was going away anyway, just like in the American Revolution, England wasn't going to stay here forever, they'd left like they left Canada, but greed got involved. The black man is the patsy for fabian socialist change here. Sorry, but I don't want to become like you in the UK.
I want to keep my rights, the consequences of being free is the fact that nothing is a sure deal, healthcare, prosperity or a meal, but I'd roll the dice for the wide longitude of the gamble than the narrow corridores of a guarenteed existence. Lincoln was the father of American socialism.
We can argue this over and over, but in the end words and philosophy will not solve this, it did't in 1860. The race card is just about played out, and the blacks won't allow themselves to be played against God. That is the new objective you know. I just sit back and watch as society deteriorates as it was predicted in the word of the God the Yankee scorns. These people here are their own downfall, give them more credit, give them more bullcrap, give them more in general and the recepie will be complete.
Today at wal-mart a woman was trampled almost to death because of a sale on DVD players. This is the value on human life our people hold, they trmpled a woman and paramedics to get to a 29 dollar dvd player you can get on ebay for 14.
Do you think the war was over slaves? What ever, just as much as Iraq is over freedom. Do you honestly think I'd like to own a blackman? Why haven't we ended slavery in the rest of the world? It's all horse sh!t.
This is an agenda long commng, to destroy the Constitution and make global serfs out of all of us. Prosperity is only for the few, and prosperity isn't how much crap you can buy in my opinion.
The South, or perhaps New England will rise again. But something is brewing, you can feel it here north south no matter, the average joes B/S meter is pegged out. I know it is hard for you to understand, the socialist's took your people a long time ago.
Marxist's and Empire is a fact though. Orwell saw it.
Mention the names of the founding fathers in school these days in America, you'll be viewed as an extremist.
Slaves freed, remained on the plantations after the war anyway. And besides, those who would live as slaves should be slaves. The Gettysburg Adress and the Emancipation Proclamation were mere propaganda poems.
Yes socialists have Empires, did not the soviets have an Empire? So do we.
Am I a white supremisist? No, color doesn't pull my mad dog chain, people who tinker with the Constitution do. The South never wanted to control the North, just to be left alone. The only thing that changed in that war was the effectiveness of the Constitution as a safeguard to freedom, and a mass exchange of wealth from the south to the North.
I have nothing against the blacks, it wasn't their fault they were used as a front to justify killing of citizens on a Milosovich scale, nor was it their fault for being used in the civil rights movement. The reality is today the slave issue was going away anyway, just like in the American Revolution, England wasn't going to stay here forever, they'd left like they left Canada, but greed got involved. The black man is the patsy for fabian socialist change here. Sorry, but I don't want to become like you in the UK.
I want to keep my rights, the consequences of being free is the fact that nothing is a sure deal, healthcare, prosperity or a meal, but I'd roll the dice for the wide longitude of the gamble than the narrow corridores of a guarenteed existence. Lincoln was the father of American socialism.
We can argue this over and over, but in the end words and philosophy will not solve this, it did't in 1860. The race card is just about played out, and the blacks won't allow themselves to be played against God. That is the new objective you know. I just sit back and watch as society deteriorates as it was predicted in the word of the God the Yankee scorns. These people here are their own downfall, give them more credit, give them more bullcrap, give them more in general and the recepie will be complete.
Today at wal-mart a woman was trampled almost to death because of a sale on DVD players. This is the value on human life our people hold, they trmpled a woman and paramedics to get to a 29 dollar dvd player you can get on ebay for 14.
Do you think the war was over slaves? What ever, just as much as Iraq is over freedom. Do you honestly think I'd like to own a blackman? Why haven't we ended slavery in the rest of the world? It's all horse sh!t.
This is an agenda long commng, to destroy the Constitution and make global serfs out of all of us. Prosperity is only for the few, and prosperity isn't how much crap you can buy in my opinion.
The South, or perhaps New England will rise again. But something is brewing, you can feel it here north south no matter, the average joes B/S meter is pegged out. I know it is hard for you to understand, the socialist's took your people a long time ago.
Marxist's and Empire is a fact though. Orwell saw it.
Mention the names of the founding fathers in school these days in America, you'll be viewed as an extremist.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
1860 the dye was cast. And as said the Emancipation speech and the Gettysburg Hiaku were just Marxist poetry. Razzle dazzle for the world, kept you out of the war didn't it? Judgment day is inevetable, this is why we lost, the world is supposed to turn to crap. Look around you in this stole calm of utopia. The horsemen are mounting up, the next hundred years will prosper in death, famine, plagues and hell. After that no guarentees. How is that for a world wide future threat assesment?
Enjoy your New World Order, and ps. don't forget to contribute troops. Schlissinger has said the NWO will require the blood of our troops, the sacrafice of our citizens and words. He said this in 1993, future looks bright gotta wear shades.
Enjoy your New World Order, and ps. don't forget to contribute troops. Schlissinger has said the NWO will require the blood of our troops, the sacrafice of our citizens and words. He said this in 1993, future looks bright gotta wear shades.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
Sisyphus
Read "When in the Course of Human Events" by Charles Adams.
The 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1951 allowing Presidents to serve only two terms, before that it was simply a tradition. Lincoln so radically changed the face and exercise of Government in this counry that he had to be cast as a hero or the world would to this day condemn him as the destroyer of the Republic. Lincoln and his unlawful invasion of the South was used very recently by the Chinese in its dealings with Tiawan.
Lincoln changed us from a Government of sovereign states in a Republic to a Centralized Federal Democracy that ignores the Sovereignty of the States and thier citizens. HE pissed on the Constitution, not the South.
The invading Yankee Army Burned and Pillaged the South as recorded in the Union's "Record of the War of the Rebellion". When a wife, by divorce, dissolves the union entered into by marriage, does the husband have the right to drag her back home kicking and screaming while he beats and starves her?
The industrial revolution in time did end slavery. The form of slavery known as sharecropping that started after Mr. Lincoln's war and the forced re-entry into the union of the South.
I would love to school you on Southern history as told by Southerners but its late and I'm tired. Gladly answer any of your quetions regarding the history of my people.
The 22nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1951 allowing Presidents to serve only two terms, before that it was simply a tradition. Lincoln so radically changed the face and exercise of Government in this counry that he had to be cast as a hero or the world would to this day condemn him as the destroyer of the Republic. Lincoln and his unlawful invasion of the South was used very recently by the Chinese in its dealings with Tiawan.
Lincoln changed us from a Government of sovereign states in a Republic to a Centralized Federal Democracy that ignores the Sovereignty of the States and thier citizens. HE pissed on the Constitution, not the South.
The invading Yankee Army Burned and Pillaged the South as recorded in the Union's "Record of the War of the Rebellion". When a wife, by divorce, dissolves the union entered into by marriage, does the husband have the right to drag her back home kicking and screaming while he beats and starves her?
The industrial revolution in time did end slavery. The form of slavery known as sharecropping that started after Mr. Lincoln's war and the forced re-entry into the union of the South.
I would love to school you on Southern history as told by Southerners but its late and I'm tired. Gladly answer any of your quetions regarding the history of my people.
life is hard, its harder if you're stupid.
1. Wow!?!? And who says so? Oh, yes. Nietzsche. Man and Superman. I seem to remember that was the credo Hitler and the Nazi philosophers subscribed to.Whitey wrote:
1. And besides, those who would live as slaves should be slaves.
2.. Do you think the war was over slaves?
3. The South, or perhaps New England will rise again. But something is brewing, you can feel it here north south no matter, the average joes B/S meter is pegged out.
4. Marxist's and Empire is a fact though. Orwell saw it.
2. As I said, it was mainly over the South's desire to secede from the Union. But it can't be denied that slavery was an issue as you seem intent on doing. "A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this Government cannot endure permanently, half slave and half free."
3. Dream on. Isn't one of the biggest problems that if things continue as they are there will be more Spanish speakers in the US than English speakers? Another attempt at secession just ain't gonna run when the US has got problems like that to deal with.
4. Marxism and empires don't exist in the same philosophy. So-called Marxist/Socialist regimes like the USSR were never truly Marxist or Socialist. Just like Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams (plus plenty of historical figures) profess [ed] to be Christians but would have trouble doing a Christian deed if their lives depended on it.
As for Lincoln being a Marxist.
. A bit I missed out from one post: "-that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom." Another example of 'Marxist poetry', as you call it.So it seems, then, Lincoln was a religious Marxist. Now there's an oxymoron if there ever was one.
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
Abe "The Emancipator"Lincoln
Every President uses religion to gain support or sympathy when it is to their advantage. Stinkin Lincoln was a Marxist, but was also as you say human. Look what happened, after the war the citizens became economic slaves. Come vistit us here, look at the state of decay our society is in. Experience the errosion of freedoms, it is insanity.
The Spanish in the west are irredentinist's as you say, true and that is where the first political faultline lays. Then you have a independence movement in Vermont that is gaining numbers, but less state controlled media attantion, actually Vermont, Maryland and New Hampshire all three want to go. Last time I was in North and South Carolina I saw more Confederate flags flying than American ones. Our cities even here in serene Colorado are filthy violent selfesh megolopolises of unproductive waste. Water is short everywhere except the great lakes region. People will trample a old fat lady for a DVD player, wait until they get thirsty.
Had we won our cause, the blacks would have been freed and assimilated not just free. We'd sealed the southern border with Mexico. And in time things would have worked out, no PC, no unpunnished assaults on the Constitution. Change would have been slower, but not as chaotic and useless as the Yankee brand. Look up North look how they live, yeah that is the model of happiness. Seems they like it so much they are flooding South same as the Californians are flooding east, as Frank he'll tell you.
The boys in D.C. right about now are realizing they have screwed the pooch, now they can only speculate when and where the first wall will crumble. They did it to themselves, and wait until the Euro gets going to it's full potential. I'm no fortune teller, but something is in the air and I'm not really looking forward to it whatever it is, but yes I'm afraid the US will break into 3 parts in the next hundred or so years, and if nothing else we will fight Europe. The yankee just can't leave people alone.
Abe "The Emancipator"Lincoln
Every President uses religion to gain support or sympathy when it is to their advantage. Stinkin Lincoln was a Marxist, but was also as you say human. Look what happened, after the war the citizens became economic slaves. Come vistit us here, look at the state of decay our society is in. Experience the errosion of freedoms, it is insanity.
The Spanish in the west are irredentinist's as you say, true and that is where the first political faultline lays. Then you have a independence movement in Vermont that is gaining numbers, but less state controlled media attantion, actually Vermont, Maryland and New Hampshire all three want to go. Last time I was in North and South Carolina I saw more Confederate flags flying than American ones. Our cities even here in serene Colorado are filthy violent selfesh megolopolises of unproductive waste. Water is short everywhere except the great lakes region. People will trample a old fat lady for a DVD player, wait until they get thirsty.
Had we won our cause, the blacks would have been freed and assimilated not just free. We'd sealed the southern border with Mexico. And in time things would have worked out, no PC, no unpunnished assaults on the Constitution. Change would have been slower, but not as chaotic and useless as the Yankee brand. Look up North look how they live, yeah that is the model of happiness. Seems they like it so much they are flooding South same as the Californians are flooding east, as Frank he'll tell you.
The boys in D.C. right about now are realizing they have screwed the pooch, now they can only speculate when and where the first wall will crumble. They did it to themselves, and wait until the Euro gets going to it's full potential. I'm no fortune teller, but something is in the air and I'm not really looking forward to it whatever it is, but yes I'm afraid the US will break into 3 parts in the next hundred or so years, and if nothing else we will fight Europe. The yankee just can't leave people alone.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
