oath of allegiance to the Crown

luke · Post by **luke** » Fri 30 Jul, 2004 2:38 pm

I'm an atheist and believe the royal family should be abolished and Britain ran as a republic

If I keep my views to myself and just get on with it is this likely to be a problem? I'm not into preaching or patronising others, or enforcing my views, and if I swear to protect the queen as I would any other British citizen would I be ok?

Obviously I'd take the same oath as anyone else!

H3 · Post by H3 » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 3:02 am

Luke no offence but if you have that view of the Crown don`t join as it would be Hypocritical of you to do so in my eyes.

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 10:30 am

I agree with him, and I'm joining. I agree I'd defend the queen, along with everyone and everything else in Britain. I'm joining because I love Britain, not the old woman who thinks she owns it. I'll say the oath because I have to. Anyone who says I shouldn't join because I don't love the monarchy is talking sh*te. If I was joining to defend the queen, I'd go for the household cavalry.

Hyperlithe · Post by **Hyperlithe** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 10:49 am

I'd far rather be fighting for Queen and Country than for whichever dodgy politician happens to be holding the keys to number 10 at the time...

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 11:21 am

If i have to fight, it won't be for no.10 or Her Majesty, it'll be for the soil of Britain itself. At the end of the day, the Queen doesn't give the orders, nor are we fighting for her. You ask the majority of young british soldiers whether or not they love the queen and see what a response you get. It's always been the way. Soldiers coming back from ww1 refusing to sing "god save the King" because, as they said, the King was alright, he was back at home, warm and dry. It was them who needed saving. But I'd bet when they got home they wanted to kiss the soil. Try telling them they were hypocrites. They were heroes. You don't need to love a rich monarch who does sod all and gets paid thousands out of our taxes to be patriotic.

H3 · Post by H3 » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 2:42 pm

bigbart wrote:If i have to fight, it won't be for no.10 or Her Majesty

When you stand in front of the Officer who swears you in .....tell him your problems with the Oath and the Crown , see where it gets you ........and yes I still call this view Hypocritical as after my 12 years service I was proud to defend ALL in this country........have some pride in your Nation and the Monarchy as they come as one package.......You`ll take the Queens Shilling MAYBE one day.

Here it is.........

" I SWEAR BY ALMIGHTY GOD THAT I WILL BE FAITHFUL AND BEAR TRUE ALLEGIANCE TO HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS AND THAT I WILL AS IN DUTY BOUND HONESTLY AND FAITHFULLY DEFEND HER MAJESTY, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS IN PERSON, CROWN AND DIGNITY AGAINST ALL ENEMIES AND WILL OBSERVE AND OBEY ALL ORDERS OF HER MAJESTY, HER HEIRS AND SUCCESSORS AND OF THE GENERALS AND OFFICERS SET OVER ME"

Note: (Those who do not believe in God "SOLEMNLY, SINCERELY AND TRULY DECLARE AND AFFIRM")

Irrespective of private beliefs, this Oath embodies the context within which the British Army fights and operates. It expresses the formal yet personal loyalty of every soldier in the British Army to the Sovereign as head of state. This focus on the Sovereign means that whatever the political views of individual soldiers, the British Army is essentially apolitical. Similarly, the Sovereign is the authority for the Commissions and Warrants of the various categories of officers. There is a similar formal yet personal relationship of Corps and Regiments to the Sovereign. These relationships find expression in the Colours, Standards and other emblems of Regimental and Corps spirit which derive from the Sovereign, and in the Ceremonial which demonstrates publicly the role of the Army in the fabric of the nation.

So basically it say`s "Can`t give a toss what you belive in this is how it`s DONE ....GET ON WITH IT"

You have your view and I have mine

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 4:36 pm

We have different views, that I can live with. It's when you told someone they shouldn't join the Army if they don't love the queen

that got my goat. There's been many a good soldier that can't stand the monarchy. I've already said the oath before, and no I wouldn't stand there moaning that I hate the monarchy, because I'm not stupid. If you went for a job in a butcher's shop, would you go on about animal rights at your interview? I'll say whatever I have to say to get in.
And I hate to repeat myself, but would you tell those men coming back from the Great War that they were wrong for not wanting to sing "God save the King" ? Because they had a point, and I wouldn't have, either. Britain and the Monarchy may come as a package, but so does Britain and it's Prime Minister, who the majority of soldiers currently despise. Does that mean the can't love Britain and want to defend it? No.
So you like the Monarchy. Sorry, I don't. And I'm still joining the Army. Hypocrite? Maybe. So what? I've been christened as well, and I go to church for weddings and funerals. But I don't read the Bible. So what? I'll be happy enough knowing I'm serving England, not her "majesty"

H3 · Post by H3 » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 4:46 pm

Good....Aggression and standing your ground........keep it for when you start your training........will be plenty of times when someone "will get your goat " just don`t mouth off to the STAFF !

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 5:16 pm

Don't worry, I can control my aggression, and I've done phase 1 army training before, along with 8 weeks of Infantry training and I know the score. I'm not one of these mouthy little sh*ts that can't keep his gob shut. If I sounded aggresive, it's because I didn't think it was right telling a lad joining the Army that he shouldn't bother if he isn't doing it for the Queen.

H3 · Post by H3 » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 5:31 pm

No prob`s here fella.......I've seen some lad`s join for the WRONG reasons , silly stupid reasons then get themselves in all sort`s of bother which intern effects Morale in general within the Platoon.

If this lad wants to join he knows he CAN ,and get on with it as stated.
What a way to spend me day off

luke · Post by **luke** » Mon 02 Aug, 2004 5:43 pm

I love my country and all who reside in it as much as anyone

I'll defend the queen with my life, as I would any other citizen of Great Britian

Think I should just leave it at that, no point getting into political debate

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Tue 03 Aug, 2004 8:24 am

luke wrote:I love my country and all who reside in it as much as anyone

I'll defend the queen with my life, as I would any other citizen of Great Britian

Think I should just leave it at that, no point getting into political debate

No you left me to do it for you

luke · Post by **luke** » Tue 03 Aug, 2004 8:09 pm

Well you did a good job, didn't wanna tread on your feet

forsaken_child · Post by **forsaken_child** » Sat 11 Sep, 2004 11:01 pm

End of the day, your swearing to serve the country and as head of state the queen is this country. What would you rather do swear to serve some cnut like bLiar or some other muppet whos running a great country into the ground or someone who stands for everything that this country has fought for for hundreds of years?

bigbart · Post by **bigbart** » Sun 12 Sep, 2004 10:27 am

I'm not even going to start with this again. Not for the third time. Everyone has their own opinion, and that's the last I'm saying on the subject.

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