Women in the SAS?

[Gypsy Rose C]

Like I said, slightly off kilter. But point taken.

[Tab]

They would look nice in the office and making the tea for the lads ???????

[Smiler.wales]

I understand both sides of this argument however the point about more men getting killed/injured because they would be more inclined to assist an injured women. Doesnt that indicate that a defieciency in the male soldier

[voodoo sprout]

It doesn't indicate a deficiency in the male soldier as such, just that all males are evolved to be hunter gatherers not soldiers. After all, there hasn't been much natural selection against those who have a genetic inability to field strip an SA80 blindfolded .

[Marina]

I'm not sure if this is the right thread I'm posting in.

I heard that President Qaddafi of Libya has personal female bodyguards and they are supposedly commando trained !!
I remember seeing a TV picture of them in Qatar a few years ago. They looked quite attractive in their combats but menacing at the same time!

[lew]

That’s all well and good but I bet their standards of SF or body guards doesn’t come anywhere close to ours, as for looking attractive in uniforms some women do, this would also cause the male soldiers and vies versa to be distracted from the task in hand!!!

[John/Sandy Ruane]

Right then, knew I couldn't stay out of the fray for ever. Loz, you never cease to impress me, scarey or what, sure you were never a Chief Wren in a previous life ?
Toni, I too am a girlie, but one who spent more time in the Navy than you are of age, yes you are right to say your bit, only remember you are playing with the big girls now !
Women in the SBS/SAS no I don't think so. In SF yes, been there for years (probably about 60 now and unlike some of the blokes, don't gob off about it either) which is what they are NOT supposed to do anyway.
Reasons why, well not because I don't think we are not good enough, clever enough or daft enough, but the very nature of the work I think would put them and the blokes at a disadvantage, for some, but not all of the reasons others have mentioned.
One point to consider, this thing about men being protective of women - cuts both ways you know. As a Senior Rate, from my mid 20s-30's I was very protective of ALL the kids who were junior to me, and would have killed and been killed for them ALL both men and women, alike. Not sure about some of the Officers though, well it was the Navy after all !!
Love Sandy

[The JaCkAl]

I personally wouldn't feel right if I was in SF's serving alongside women. Not only because I'm week when it comes to women, but they're are too emotional, and an emotional and irrational women is a nightmare. I know women are "better at handling stress".... whatever, but I think men are better at emotionally dettaching themselves from situations (well I am anyway). I know what I've put may sound a bit sexist, but I don't know one women who I could imagine shooting someone and being able to live with it. I don't think it's in womens nature to be violent. Obviously there are going to be acceptions to all situations and rules, but generally I think not. A bit of a stupid thread really, imagine........has anyone read bravo two zero or any other books like that?.........imagine some of the characters you read about in them being women. It just doesn't work. Maybe it's just my conditioning???????

I'm pretty sure what i've said has been reiterated earlier in this thread but I don't give a f*ck, I can't be bothered to read it all and see....

[El Prez]

I'm pretty sure what i've said has been reiterated earlier in this thread but I don't give a f*ck, I can't be bothered to read it all and see....

It has been reiterated, torn to shreds and rehashed, far more eloquently than your composition. If you want to be taken seriously perhaps you should give a F**K, otherwise back to mum.

[John/Sandy Ruane]

Since when was a predilection to violence a requirement for being in SF or any forces for that matter, Jackal ?
Emotions are not something to be viewed as negative either, haven't we just won a war with "hearts and minds" just as much as with rounds and bombs ? The British Armed Forces are made up of human beings, thank God, and not robots, we all have emotions, men just as much as women, maybe we have less hang ups about displaying them, thats all.
20 odd years ago a woman member of SF was awarded the QGM. Not because she had good upper body strength and stormed some position and acted bravely for a few minutes or hours. She won it by living alongside some of the most prolific terrorists of our time in NI. She did her job knowing that if they ever discovered her true identity she would be beaten, raped and butchered. The "nasties" at the time particularly didn't like the idea that a woman could infiltrate their ranks. Was she able to detach herself emotionally, you bet !
She did this job month in month out, facing danger every day, displaying intelligence, lateral thinking and bravery. Qualities not just confined to the male gender, as has so aptly been demonstrated by Jackal.
Sandy

[gash-hand]

Hurrah for Sandy. Thats the point I have been (and given up on) trying to make for ages.

I guess the problem is one of perception - most people who think of SF think of Herford (and mabay boats) and lots of balls out firefights.

Not many think of the int capability of SF forces (which to be honest is their greatest strength). Its been proved time and time again women can get into places men can't - because there is an inherent weekness in men to trust women - but not many women can utilise this capability and remain detached from the target at the same time - just as not all men will be in the sas. Thats the whole points of SF troops - each is desigend for a particular purpose.

To omit women is to lose a very effective capability - look how successful women SOE operatives were during WWII.

Not all SF (or infantry) roles suit women, but by the same token some roles can be done better by women than men - the smart army will realise this and tailor their forces appropiatly.

At the end of the day the armed forces should be above political gesturing, alls it does is demeen genuine acheivements and place servicemen/women in danger - however this will never happen as most politicians will ever have to go and pick up a rifle and stand up and be counted.

[Oakers]

I know it's a little off thread but just for information I was at CTC when they first put Women through the MA's Commando Course and they failed miserably, that's not really a negative comment to them because I think 90% of that intake also failed. It is just an example.
The second one being that I was also at CTC when that AGC Captain passed tests, the buzz was that she'd been allowed to pass because of all the media interest etc. Don't get me wrong, anyone that can complete tests deserves recognition but when it's out of the specified times and to lower standards who's being cheated her or the blokes that may need to rely on her strength when things go pear shaped?

I see pro's and cons for the arguement and I'm sure there are certain female individuals that could pass P Coy, Commando Tests, Selection but as we all know, passing out and making it in a unit are very different. I for one don't think it should be allowed regardless of whether the capability is there, just a personal view and not one I'd inflict on anyone else here.

[barryc]

I think Sandy made the point adequately, we shouldn't get hung up on SF meaning SAS/SBS type roles (well not the whole gamut of what they do) SF also means the very able women that served in the Det in NI and, as has already been stated the very brave women who served in SOE and those who still go undercover in the SS and SIS.

You don't have to be big and strong and overflowing with testosterone to do a good job. I too wouldn't want a female colleague alongside me if it was a load carry/troop assault scenario, I am married and have daughters and am disfunctional enough to feel protective of the distaff side. Credit where it is due, some women have and still do earn my respect for their parts in some very testing ops.

To conclude, women in RM, Paras, SBS or SAS, I would rather not see, women in SF can play an important part.


Barry

[Oakers]

Barry I agree there is a role to be played but I just don't think it's the dagger between the teeth stuff.

I was speaking to an oppo at HQ & Squigs about it and a comment he made was in my opinion spot on "It won't happen because the public aren't ready to start seeing mothers,sisters and daughters coffins being unloaded from planes". Your thoughts?........

[gash-hand]

This discussion doesn't really seem to be going anywhere, the same observations and quotes just keep reappearing every few posts.

I think I'm right in saying we all agree that women probably won't/shouldn't be allowed to join RM/Para/SAS/SBS due to the physical demands of these units.

However I still think it worth pointing out that women are serving in a SF capacity in NI and various other locations throughout the world for the British forces.

Just because they aren't being used in a conventional role doesn't mean they aren't doing the job.

For may part I agree wmoen shouldn't be allowed to join RM/Para/SAS/SBS.

However just because women aren't allowed in these forces doesn't mean they can't join an SF unit, I think we need to look beyond the obvious and accept that there are some roles that are better suited to women.