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the harrier
the harrier
Havin read the earlier topic about scrapping the harriers I am now starting to get a bit worried. Im joining the among other reasons to work on aeroplanes not helicopters aboard aircraft carriers. Therefore I was planning on working on the harrier jets. But if they are scrapping them when would this be and how long after would they be replacing them with a new aeroplane. Please answer this because I dont want to stuck just working with helicopers where there is alos less opportunities for jobs when I come. If I knew this was happening I wouldnt have applied.
The Navy is getting rid of the FA2 Harrier and all the pilots are going across to the RAF to fly the GR7, and eventually, the GR 9 Harrier. They will remain part of the Navy, although will fly as part of the Joint Harrier Force. Eventually, when the Joint Strike Fighter comes into service with the RAF and Navy, the pilots will come back to the Navy (when 800 and 801 Sqns reform).
How this affects the Navy Harrier groundcrew, I don't know, but I would imagine that some of them will be going to Cottesmore to work alongside the RAF technicians.
How this affects the Navy Harrier groundcrew, I don't know, but I would imagine that some of them will be going to Cottesmore to work alongside the RAF technicians.
.... But i do now! 
Sailorboy, there are loads of job opportunities worldwide for helicopter engineers. You have to qualify for your civilian licences, just like th eaircrew, but there is a definite future post RN. In fact the RN recruit former staff to work on airbases in their previous roles! How much does that cost us?
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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El Presidente
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El Presidente
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Mr Grimsdale
- Member
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Wed 07 Jan, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kingston
Tab, it's more to do with the undercarriage.Tab wrote:Bovie
The Euro fighter can not be used on a carrier, not even on the new ones that they might build. This has already been looked at and found to be a non starter, I would imagine that the air frame can't take the strain of the hook.
The undercarriage of a conventional navy aircraft takes a helluva pounding, much more so than a land based aircraft. The undercarriage of the Eurofighter would probably have to be strengthed considerably leading to a weight increase.
On the same topic from the Telegraph :
Ships in danger say Navy chiefs, as Sea Harriers are scrapped
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 28/03/2004)
The Ministry of Defence is placing Britain's sailors in danger by scrapping the Royal Navy's fleet of Sea Harrier jump jets, senior officers are warning.
The first of the Navy's three squadrons of Sea Harriers, which protect Britain's warships from air attack, will be decommissioned on Wednesday, taking seven aircraft out of service.
Navy Sea Harriers hovering over HMS Invincible
The Navy's remaining 20 Sea Harriers will be scrapped during the next two years, but their replacement, the Joint Strike Fighter, is not due to come into service until 2012 and is only at the prototype stage.
Until then, the Sea Harriers will be replaced by the RAF's slower ground attack versions of the jump jet, the GR7 and GR9, which will be fitted with a Sidewinder air-to-air missile, designed primarily for self defence.
The Government insists that the risk will be "acceptable", but naval officers and the Conservatives have accused ministers of placing service personnel in unnecessary danger.
A senior Navy officer told the Telegraph: "This is potentially one of the most disastrous military decisions ever undertaken. A perfectly capable air interceptor whose function is to seek out and destroy enemy aircraft in order to protect a fleet of ships is being replaced with an aircraft that can't do this."
Nicholas Soames, the shadow defence secretary, said: "The Government has chosen to take a calculated risk with the air defence of the fleet in the coming years. Recent history, and the current threat environment, show that this is a cut that they may well come to regret.
"If we need to put a task force to sea again, the lack of this aircraft will seriously compromise options available to the commander."
The Fleet Air Arm has three Sea Harrier squadrons, two operational - 800 and 801 - and 899 Naval Air Squadron, which is used for training. The 800 Squadron, which has seven aircraft, will be decommissioned on Wednesday at Yeovilton Royal Naval Air Station, Somerset; 899 Squadron, which comprises 13 Sea Harriers, will be disbanded next year, followed by the seven aircraft of 801 Squadron in 2006.
The role of the Sea Harrier has been to protect surface ships and ground troops from air attack. Equipped with a highly sophisticated radar and armed with the advanced medium range air-to-air missile, Amraam, it has the capability to attack enemy aircraft at ranges of more than 30 miles.
Two years ago, however, the Government decided to withdraw them from service, rather than spend £1 billion on an upgrade that would have extended their life until 2012, when the Joint Strike Fighter arrives. The ground-attack version that will be replacing it has neither the Sea Harrier's forward looking air defence radar nor its Amraam medium range air defence missile, undermining its capacity to defend Britain's warships.
Cdr "Sharkey" Ward, the former commanding officer of 801 Squadron said the decision was a "disgrace".
He said: "If a task force has to put to sea any time in the next 10 years, which in the present circumstances is highly likely, the lives of British troops will be put at risk. To send a task force to sea would be suicide without proper air cover."
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "With the demise of the Sea Harrier, the Royal Navy will be left with a capability gap. But we believe that that is an acceptable risk."
Ships in danger say Navy chiefs, as Sea Harriers are scrapped
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 28/03/2004)
The Ministry of Defence is placing Britain's sailors in danger by scrapping the Royal Navy's fleet of Sea Harrier jump jets, senior officers are warning.
The first of the Navy's three squadrons of Sea Harriers, which protect Britain's warships from air attack, will be decommissioned on Wednesday, taking seven aircraft out of service.
Navy Sea Harriers hovering over HMS Invincible
The Navy's remaining 20 Sea Harriers will be scrapped during the next two years, but their replacement, the Joint Strike Fighter, is not due to come into service until 2012 and is only at the prototype stage.
Until then, the Sea Harriers will be replaced by the RAF's slower ground attack versions of the jump jet, the GR7 and GR9, which will be fitted with a Sidewinder air-to-air missile, designed primarily for self defence.
The Government insists that the risk will be "acceptable", but naval officers and the Conservatives have accused ministers of placing service personnel in unnecessary danger.
A senior Navy officer told the Telegraph: "This is potentially one of the most disastrous military decisions ever undertaken. A perfectly capable air interceptor whose function is to seek out and destroy enemy aircraft in order to protect a fleet of ships is being replaced with an aircraft that can't do this."
Nicholas Soames, the shadow defence secretary, said: "The Government has chosen to take a calculated risk with the air defence of the fleet in the coming years. Recent history, and the current threat environment, show that this is a cut that they may well come to regret.
"If we need to put a task force to sea again, the lack of this aircraft will seriously compromise options available to the commander."
The Fleet Air Arm has three Sea Harrier squadrons, two operational - 800 and 801 - and 899 Naval Air Squadron, which is used for training. The 800 Squadron, which has seven aircraft, will be decommissioned on Wednesday at Yeovilton Royal Naval Air Station, Somerset; 899 Squadron, which comprises 13 Sea Harriers, will be disbanded next year, followed by the seven aircraft of 801 Squadron in 2006.
The role of the Sea Harrier has been to protect surface ships and ground troops from air attack. Equipped with a highly sophisticated radar and armed with the advanced medium range air-to-air missile, Amraam, it has the capability to attack enemy aircraft at ranges of more than 30 miles.
Two years ago, however, the Government decided to withdraw them from service, rather than spend £1 billion on an upgrade that would have extended their life until 2012, when the Joint Strike Fighter arrives. The ground-attack version that will be replacing it has neither the Sea Harrier's forward looking air defence radar nor its Amraam medium range air defence missile, undermining its capacity to defend Britain's warships.
Cdr "Sharkey" Ward, the former commanding officer of 801 Squadron said the decision was a "disgrace".
He said: "If a task force has to put to sea any time in the next 10 years, which in the present circumstances is highly likely, the lives of British troops will be put at risk. To send a task force to sea would be suicide without proper air cover."
A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "With the demise of the Sea Harrier, the Royal Navy will be left with a capability gap. But we believe that that is an acceptable risk."
What ever they do they are up the Creek with out a paddle, now the Sea Harrier is a nice little plane but obsolete. Okay it did well in the Falklands but that was over twenty years ago, now can any of you experts tell me how the Harrier is going to intercept an aircraft traveling at Mach 2 when it can't even travel at Mach 1. To fire it missiles it needs to get with in range to do this and at the speed diference there is not much chance in that, until the new euipment comes into being in about eight years the aircraft carried will only need to be ground attack as that is they can do. If, and that is a big if, the new Carriers come into service then the Navy could always by a few American Carrier aircraft if the new aircraft are not ready, but until then I would interested to hear what you would suggest should fly of our mini carriers that could do this sort work.
Tab,The old eurofighter design was ruled out as the air intake duct's for the engine would interfear with the location of the SAMSU and AMSU (single/ air motor service unit's) control unit's (control flight hover of aircraft).The Euro fighter can not be used on a carrier, not even on the new ones that they might build. This has already been looked at and found to be a non starter, I would imagine that the air frame can't take the strain of the hook.
The JSF aircraft is undergoing a redesign to change the duct's from square to a more curved one which may allow a hover application sinillar to the Harrier.
Money was being pumped into the way over budget and stupidly public funded project to create a replacment for the Sea Harrier.
If they can't do it, then the Harrier was going to be looked at, as to a possible extension of service.
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Why can't you accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.
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"The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. --- Alan Ashley Pitt"
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Why can't you accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.
Harriers
If you want to work on Harriers you will be able to do it the navy. The harriers are to be flown by a mixture of RAF and RN pilots. The groundcrew will also be a mixture of RAF and RN, serving onboard the carriers whilst at sea and at RAF bases whilst ashore. The current harrier bases i think are just cottesmore and wittering i dont know what the situation is with Yeovilton. the Harrier FA-2 will be gone by 2006. In 2012 HMS Queen Elizabeth will hopefully commission, chances are currently looking very good and you would then work on the new F-35 VSTOL JSF.
Its a calculated risk really, an FA-2 upgrade would be needed to keep it credible until JSF arrives. They are gambling a saving of about 1 billion pounds on the assumption that a British carrier will not be going on operations in an area where it is likely to come under air attack. It is believed that an American carrier will be alongside the Invincibles to provide air cover. Its not a nice thought, the FA-2 is not an obsolete jet, it may lack speed yes but it has a very good radar, excellent maneuverability, excellent pilots who know good tactics and good weapons. However as we know there is not an endless pot of gold that the RN can dip into constantly, the six year gap will go quickly and we are likely to be fighting alongside the yanks who have more than enough fighters. The Type 45s will also enhance our own air defence capability. Scrapping the FA-2 is a neccesary evil due to a tight defence budget.
Its a calculated risk really, an FA-2 upgrade would be needed to keep it credible until JSF arrives. They are gambling a saving of about 1 billion pounds on the assumption that a British carrier will not be going on operations in an area where it is likely to come under air attack. It is believed that an American carrier will be alongside the Invincibles to provide air cover. Its not a nice thought, the FA-2 is not an obsolete jet, it may lack speed yes but it has a very good radar, excellent maneuverability, excellent pilots who know good tactics and good weapons. However as we know there is not an endless pot of gold that the RN can dip into constantly, the six year gap will go quickly and we are likely to be fighting alongside the yanks who have more than enough fighters. The Type 45s will also enhance our own air defence capability. Scrapping the FA-2 is a neccesary evil due to a tight defence budget.
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CrouchmasterT
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- Joined: Sun 01 Feb, 2004 12:02 am
- Location: 42 cdo/Watford
Sailorboy, i think your being a bit presumptuous (is that the right word?) in joining just too work on harriers considering they have only 3 harrier sqaudrons and 12 helicopter sqaudrons, at the end of the day when your up to your elbows in grease servicing an engine its probably no more exciting just because its a harrier engine. As for the qualifications i think they are all in avionics engineering in general so you should be ok in the future.
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