A Regiment is only as good as it's last bit of action, rather like an actor is often judged on his last part. Though the para's were out in Iraq they seemed to be stuck out in the Desert polishing a pipeline most of the time.
The Marines this had a better role and was under more of the spotlight.
Now as a former Para I don't think there is a lot to chose between the two units. They are both well trained and very fit, the main difference is the way they go into action On top of that they are both proud of what they have achived over the years and so they should be.To cut either of these units would be a sin as you could never really replace them
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Pongo's Trying to Poach the Corps
i think the reason the RM;s where in the thick of the action was the state of the country. Beach heads where cleared early, easy for RM's to deploy where as sporadic gunfire, gorilla farmers, hidden fedayeen etc made it difficult for a large scale Para drop to work effectivly...
If the country we where facing was like different against a country with a strong navy but with no airpower or support at all for the regime then Paras would be the safer option...
Cheers, dave
If the country we where facing was like different against a country with a strong navy but with no airpower or support at all for the regime then Paras would be the safer option...
Cheers, dave
Commandos
The origins of the British commandos lie with the Army who took volunteers from the Army Regiments to start the British commandos in 1940, this included SBS.
RMs' didn't enter into the commando role until 1942 and some units were not trained until 1944.
3 Commando must not be confused with 3 Commando Brigade.
3 Commando was an Army Commando raised in 1940 and operational in 1941 in the raid on the Lofoten Islands Norway.
RMs' didn't enter into the commando role until 1942 and some units were not trained until 1944.
3 Commando must not be confused with 3 Commando Brigade.
3 Commando was an Army Commando raised in 1940 and operational in 1941 in the raid on the Lofoten Islands Norway.
Brian Easton
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chunky from york
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We could try the Belgian model of Para/Commando Brigade. If the UK can not afford a fully airborne Brigade, have one battalion Para trained and in-date with their jump requirements and the other two battalions commando trained.
Rotating the men so they get a fair crack at the parachuting role.
Rotating the men so they get a fair crack at the parachuting role.
Chunky from York
I may not be the man I was, but I was
I may not be the man I was, but I was
The one thing that started this all off was the Royal Navy wanting to set the Marines along the lines of the American Marines which is a totaly independant force. They want the Marines to have their own armour and heavy guns, then if they get that they will need the ships to carry them around, then they will need the carriers for air support, then they will need extra ships to guard the carriers, then they will need the special landing craft to get it all a shore, and so on. The scheme could take the whole defence budget for years to come.
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A simliar thing was broached in the early 70's.
B'liar and his "Kelly" killers can go F*ck Themselves as far as I am concerned. Once a Marine always a Marine!
Every time the Corps show the Army how to do it right. This bag of worms is unloaded. Case in point CDOLOGREGTRM. After the Falklands the Army changed there supply routine. Logs were supplying 2 Bdes with everything they needed! As normal the Army learned how to do it right by looking and learning from the Corp.
Snipers: The only place in the 70's to do a snipers course was at CTCRM! It got to a stage where various Army Regt's were sending blokes to CTC to learn the bloody job! Once again the Army got it wrong the Marines got it right.
You join the Marines to be a Marine, not to be a Pongo for God's sake! Any Drongo can be a Pongo! It's harder to join the Corp than get a place in Eton for your son I once read many years ago. 6000 Marines and still the best! (because the blokes who join are vetted. Anyone who is not up to it is binned, even if he is in the final stages of the Commando course) Just look at the amount of Pongo Bandies who could not hack it in the Corp. Same for the various Infantry Regt's, a fair few were transferred at "there own request" when I was in training. And I should imagine it still happens today.
The attached ranks from the Army/Navy and RAF think the world of the Corps. (they are more Corp Pissed than most Marines in point of fact. 29 CDOREGTRA had a Galley and went on "runs ashore" from the Cidadel when I was serving)
O this had to be a windup!! If not..............God alone knows.
Ifen it is a Gen Buzz the Army are going to find themselves needing a hell of a lot of new Officers and Soldiers. I would apply to leave ASAP no messtins! Had me say.
Artist
B'liar and his "Kelly" killers can go F*ck Themselves as far as I am concerned. Once a Marine always a Marine!
Every time the Corps show the Army how to do it right. This bag of worms is unloaded. Case in point CDOLOGREGTRM. After the Falklands the Army changed there supply routine. Logs were supplying 2 Bdes with everything they needed! As normal the Army learned how to do it right by looking and learning from the Corp.
Snipers: The only place in the 70's to do a snipers course was at CTCRM! It got to a stage where various Army Regt's were sending blokes to CTC to learn the bloody job! Once again the Army got it wrong the Marines got it right.
You join the Marines to be a Marine, not to be a Pongo for God's sake! Any Drongo can be a Pongo! It's harder to join the Corp than get a place in Eton for your son I once read many years ago. 6000 Marines and still the best! (because the blokes who join are vetted. Anyone who is not up to it is binned, even if he is in the final stages of the Commando course) Just look at the amount of Pongo Bandies who could not hack it in the Corp. Same for the various Infantry Regt's, a fair few were transferred at "there own request" when I was in training. And I should imagine it still happens today.
The attached ranks from the Army/Navy and RAF think the world of the Corps. (they are more Corp Pissed than most Marines in point of fact. 29 CDOREGTRA had a Galley and went on "runs ashore" from the Cidadel when I was serving)
O this had to be a windup!! If not..............God alone knows.
Ifen it is a Gen Buzz the Army are going to find themselves needing a hell of a lot of new Officers and Soldiers. I would apply to leave ASAP no messtins! Had me say.
Artist
Pezmod your wrong , 3 Commando Brigade is made up of Royal Marines,Someone tell me if im wrong, but is'nt a large portion of 3 Commando Brigade including its Engineers, Signalers, Artillery, Armoured Recce already apart of the Army. If so would'nt it make sense to give it to the control of the Army.
a small portion of army ranks are attached. Not one of the attached ranks thinks of them selves as in the Navy Army or RAF , my big brother was in 59 Cdo RA for many years , he always says he was a marine not a pongo. No one is given a GREEN HAT we all earn the right to wear it , I was part of the Navy and I hope the next generation to earn the right to wear a Coverted Green are as well. Anyway who is going to look after Jack if Royal is drafted to Aldershot.
A LIFE ON THE OCEAN WAVES.
KEEP THE ROYAL NAVY PART OF THE ROYAL MARINES
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Artist
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The CO of LOGS during the Falklands was a LT Col Ivor Hellberg RCT.
He was made up COL, sent to MOD in London and proceeded to alter the Armys Comms, Methods of Ordering kit/suppyling kit, Amount of guys needed, all the useless bullsh*t that was not needed in fact. LOGS had that many Army heavyduty ranks visiting it after the Falklands to check on how it was done it became silly. Basically Red Tape was removed and Common Dog was inserted. Maybe my comments have pushed your nose out of joint, if so sorry. (I will buy the first round in the White Lion, OK?)
Artist
The CO of LOGS during the Falklands was a LT Col Ivor Hellberg RCT.
He was made up COL, sent to MOD in London and proceeded to alter the Armys Comms, Methods of Ordering kit/suppyling kit, Amount of guys needed, all the useless bullsh*t that was not needed in fact. LOGS had that many Army heavyduty ranks visiting it after the Falklands to check on how it was done it became silly. Basically Red Tape was removed and Common Dog was inserted. Maybe my comments have pushed your nose out of joint, if so sorry. (I will buy the first round in the White Lion, OK?)
Artist
What is it with Marines and Paras always slaging of the Infantry. How do they know there better. Yes we all agree the fitness stadards are alot higher in the RMs and Paras but not that much greater. And I am sure theres alot of Infantrymen who are lot fitter than some Marines and Paras.
But there is alot more to being a Riflemen than fitness alone. How do you know that the Staffords are not better at Section attacks than the Marines. Or that the Coldstream Guards ar'nt better shots. Or The Duke of Wellingtons ar'nt better at field craft than the Paras.
The thing is we dont know because Line Infantry never get the chance to show themselfs. The facts is that the Royal Marines and Parachute Regiment are everyones blue eyed boys, especialy the medias. For example you would be mastaken to think that only the Marines were in Afganastan. Or only the Paras were in the Falklands. And the Household Cavalry were the first British unit into the capital of Macedonia, yet the press totaly blanked them and surrouned the Paras who came in sometime later.
This realy gets to the Infantry, who know they can do a job just as well but never get the chance because people cant see past the Marines and Paras. I mean why were the Paras sent to Iraq to defend the oil fields. Are you saying someone like the Green Jackets could not do that. And somebody said not just anyone can get into the Marines. But that can also be said by the REME, Royal Engineers, Army Air Core etc.
Dont get me wrong, if I was put on the spot and asked who I thought was the most complete solider I would say a Royal Marine. And this is from an ex Army Infantrymen. But please show some respect to the Army we all have a part to play.
So ill shutup now and await the attack.
But there is alot more to being a Riflemen than fitness alone. How do you know that the Staffords are not better at Section attacks than the Marines. Or that the Coldstream Guards ar'nt better shots. Or The Duke of Wellingtons ar'nt better at field craft than the Paras.
The thing is we dont know because Line Infantry never get the chance to show themselfs. The facts is that the Royal Marines and Parachute Regiment are everyones blue eyed boys, especialy the medias. For example you would be mastaken to think that only the Marines were in Afganastan. Or only the Paras were in the Falklands. And the Household Cavalry were the first British unit into the capital of Macedonia, yet the press totaly blanked them and surrouned the Paras who came in sometime later.
This realy gets to the Infantry, who know they can do a job just as well but never get the chance because people cant see past the Marines and Paras. I mean why were the Paras sent to Iraq to defend the oil fields. Are you saying someone like the Green Jackets could not do that. And somebody said not just anyone can get into the Marines. But that can also be said by the REME, Royal Engineers, Army Air Core etc.
Dont get me wrong, if I was put on the spot and asked who I thought was the most complete solider I would say a Royal Marine. And this is from an ex Army Infantrymen. But please show some respect to the Army we all have a part to play.
So ill shutup now and await the attack.
