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Undercover soldier

General discussions on joining & training in the British Army.
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mozza
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Undercover soldier

#1 Post by mozza » Thu 18 Sep, 2008 11:03 pm

anyone watch it bbc1?? whats ur thoughts? i think the Cpls kicking a smashing helmets together is not that bad u kinda expect that if you're out of line but punching in the face not good! thats really out of order i mean you cant really hit them back unless u wana world of s**it. :roll:

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#2 Post by gooner_27 » Thu 18 Sep, 2008 11:14 pm

Yeah i thought it was all bullshite, All of the recruits i watched explaining why they got treated harshly deseved it, You dont gob off to lance corprals or any member who has been there and done it, If you act like a tit then you will get punished for it. This is a deadly serious business we are in or are trying to get in there is no room for arrogance or sloppyness.
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#3 Post by billybud » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 12:08 am

Yes I watched it - it was diabolical. This is what BBC documentary has come to?
Filmed on a mobile phone! People were not interviewed but filmed secretly (isn't that against the law?)
Hearsay evidence given by lads pumped up and bullshitting because they are a little bit angry at their instructors!
Hello? You are supposed to hate the corporal - having a swing at him? What do you do - fill in a health & safety form? Pointing your rifle in a mates back? 10 press ups and a letter to mum?
FFS i've never been in the Forces, but that programme got my blood boiling.

Alfa

#4 Post by Alfa » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 1:00 am

The guy who filmed this was a snake pure and simple, you just don't do that sort of thing, I can't stand platoon grasses. He went in there looking for dirt and if you look hard enough you can turn any old sob story into something it's not.

Let's face it, it'd have been a miracle if this guy didn't find something to show as that's what the whole six month "investigation" was about!

I doubt it'd have gone down well if he'd gone back to the BBC and said how lovely Catterick was and how marvellous all the staff are, he probably wouldn't have gotten another assignment and after all the mans got his career to think about :roll:

If there's one thing recruits like to do it's complain about how harshly they're treated, how their beastings are harder than anyone else gets etc....

It seemed to me that there wasn't really anything to report in this, even at it's worst it was isolated cases and NOT evidence of systematic bullying by training staff like at Deep Cut.

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#5 Post by gooner_27 » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 1:49 am

I dont know how they can call it bullying, moaning recruits what do they think they are at butlins????????????
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#6 Post by gooner_27 » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 1:51 am

The whole programe was utter knobshite in my opinion absolute bollocks.
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#7 Post by DJSOLUTION » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 9:46 am

I watched it and thought it was a sneaky bit of work! and I personnaly thought they would search you going into catterick, then they wouldnt have people like this entering training and wasting the Armys time!

Surley we all understand that the staff there are not going to be friendly, I mean they are there to turn us into tough soliders so we can do the best job possible when that time comes. If they were all nice and friendly Britans forces wouldnt have become the hard Ba*****s they are today.

The one thing that did get me a bit confused is that corporal who pissed on the recruits shoe? what the **** was that about? ..............
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Ste Preece
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#8 Post by Ste Preece » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 9:50 am

I never saw the programme guys, but I do know that the public don't understand the serviceman's mentality.

That is: they train to operate in battle situations where they will apply all their skills and experience complete with tact and superior firepower. The firefights will start and the momentum begins. If on the way through a soldier runs out of ammo, he will fix his bayonet and start ripping and tearing at everything that gets in his path. This will go on until its finished.

Now, your average jo on civvy street, would not be applying this approach to his work, nor will they ever fully understand the serviceman's frame of mind or sense of humour.

The idea is not to molly coddle recruits, nor is it to bully them. Its to train them to do one of the most arduos jobs in the world, professionally, and to go into war at the drop of a hat.

They are trained to the highest standards, to fight wars for the public, who can stay safe in beds at night. Although, truthfully, a mere few will only ever appreciate that.

That's why the servicemen, Work Hard, Train Hard and Play Hard.

They live by the sword and have no real fear of dying by it.



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Ria

#9 Post by Ria » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 9:52 am

I started a thread on Military Forums....

www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18419

Beasting is one thing, physically abusing a recruit is out of order.
If it was acceptable, how come those responsible are suspended?
Harsh, tough training? Yes, imperative.
Bullying? Never ok.
If that line gets crossed, it needs to be reported.

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Beasting

#10 Post by Ste Preece » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 10:19 am

Ria: I totally agree with you.



People should not mix beasting with bullying. Beastings can also be called Extra Corrective Military Training. Its a form of physical punishment for not acheiving something. generally you are all beasted together, which helps to bond you as a team. Its also an incentive to try harder next time. And on top of that, more positively, it helps build up your fitness.


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#11 Post by LostandFound » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 1:15 pm

I didn't see any bullying on there, just a lot of "he said" "they said". And I'm not being funny, but 99% of the time these incidents were happening on a live firing range. Sorry, but if you mess about with a loaded weapon, you deserve a clip around the ear.

And seriously, was this bloke honestly moaning about having to do 3 quick changes for not marching round camp properly??? Jesus, in my first week in RT at CTC we had to do about 20 quick changes in a row for poor time keeping. Was that bullying? Was it fook, but it made us sort out our time keeping thats for sure.

All in all, I think the army can be reasonably pleased with the outcome of this program. Didn't show any evidence of bullying at all. It did, however, waste yet another huge portion of the publics license fee.
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#12 Post by GGHT » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 2:34 pm

Alfa wrote:The guy who filmed this was a snake pure and simple, you just don't do that sort of thing, I can't stand platoon grasses. He went in there looking for dirt and if you look hard enough you can turn any old sob story into something it's not.

Let's face it, it'd have been a miracle if this guy didn't find something to show as that's what the whole six month "investigation" was about!

I doubt it'd have gone down well if he'd gone back to the BBC and said how lovely Catterick was and how marvellous all the staff are, he probably wouldn't have gotten another assignment and after all the mans got his career to think about :roll:

If there's one thing recruits like to do it's complain about how harshly they're treated, how their beastings are harder than anyone else gets etc....

It seemed to me that there wasn't really anything to report in this, even at it's worst it was isolated cases and NOT evidence of systematic bullying by training staff like at Deep Cut.
Spot on.

I actually started watching this with an open mind, then quickly realised that everything was anecdotal evidence, many times 2nd or even 3rd hand accounts of what had happened!

"So what happened to recruit x three weeks ago?" type of thing!

Wholley

#13 Post by Wholley » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 4:18 pm

One thing to remember.
This was the BBC.
Notoriously anti military,anti weapons and anti war.
The Atlantic Conveyors position was broadcast by the Beeb during the Falklands conflict and she was subsequently sunk.
They also reported a"Massive death toll"After the sinking of HMS Coventry when in fact only nineteen sailors were killed.
They have a liberal agenda which works from the top down.
I feel bad for the NCO's who are facing a court martial because of slanted reporting. :evil:

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#14 Post by GGHT » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 4:28 pm

I agree Wholley.

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#15 Post by xcj » Fri 19 Sep, 2008 6:12 pm

what made me laugh was when he said something along the lines of "i experienced it myself when one cpl grabbed me and shook me"... what an absolute animal that cpl is.

In my opinion, the BBC thought of the idea and saw the headlines of exposing a massive amount of bullying within the army so they sent in this undercover guy. He did his job and went back to the bbc with what equates to nothing - leaving the BBC with 2 options. a) forget the idea and keep it quiet or b) run the programme anyway but place major emphasis on minor things which has backfired because not one person ive spoken to thought it was anything but sh*te.

If anything, it made me wish i was in even more as it was the best insight into training i think i've ever seen - after all nobody knew he was recording. I saw the fact that lads who wern't even on the same platoon and never even knew each other that well were talking to each other and sharing experiences. Not only that but you saw the guys having a laugh in their rooms in between all the tough times.

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