Al Queda Supporters

[Jon]

Captain Hook is wanted in Yemen for terrorism were he would be sentanced to death (he may have already been sentanced in absence) so I reckon we should send him there.

There was something on BBC1 only a few moments ago which was about a radical Muslim cleric in London who openly reached hatred. He said that the Madrid bombings were justified as eye-for-an-eye because of what happned during the crusades in the 15th century, and said that is would be right for Muslims to fly planes into 10 Downing Street or the White House. Most of his listeners were British family men, one of whom said that he envied the Madrid bombers. They should be all locked up for life. Yet yesturday hundreds of people demanded that British terrorist suspects should be freed immediately if not charged. Bloody idiots.

Muslims are not our enemy, that should be made clear. It is terrorists who want to kill innocents that are our enemy and they should be dealt with. As far as im concerned, they have no rights and should be killed if need be.

[Marina]

Statements made by the Malaysian President are very unhelpful creating an air of islamaphobia and the media’s interpretation of islam is quite strange thus making life difficult for the majority of secular muslims living the West. The muslim faith is also the fastest faith growing in North America. However, the American muslims have a different mentality compared with those radicals from Middle Eastern and Asian extraction. The American muslims are culturally very American in their ways. The same can be said for the Bosnian muslims

Extremists like Abu Hamza and that Syrian imbecile (head of the Al-Mahajiroun group) are irritating and should be scrutinised but Frank and Pasha have point, they have their nuisance value with their connections to other extremists here and abroad . These groups are motivated by political ideology rather than religious principles.

P.S
Do you think electro-convulsive therapy or a pre-frontal lobtomy would work on these people!

[Ploggers]

In defence of my own comments I would add that I did not mention the Muslim religeon at all. I noted last week with some interest - and perhaps a little cynicism - that there were Muslim leaders calling for these extremists to be curtailed by Imans in the country's mosques. Text as follows courtesy of BBC news;

"To: Imams, Ulema, Chairs and Secretaries of Mosques, Islamic Organisations and Institutions

Dear Respected Colleague

As salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullah

The last few weeks and days have been fraught with tragedies and dangers.

I am sure you are fully aware of the serious concerns expressed by the prime minister and the police authorities about the high probability of an imminent terrorist outrage in the UK.

I have no doubt that as a leader in the community you are already discharging your Islamic duty in helping to preserve the peace of the nation as well as protecting the community against falling into any trap or provocation.

Following the criminal terrorist attack on the Madrid trains, and despite our immediate, public and unequivocal condemnation of those atrocities some, however, continue to associate Islam with terrorism by using such misleading terms as 'Islamic terrorist'. The words of the Qur'an are clear:

"He who killed any person, unless it be a person guilty of manslaughter, or of spreading chaos in the land, should be looked upon as though he had slain all mankind, and he who saved one life should be regarded as though he had saved the lives of all mankind."(5:32)

We therefore urge you to take the following actions:

To provide the correct Islamic guidance to the community, especially to our youth as to our obligation to maintain the peace and security of our country

To observe the utmost vigilance against any mischievous or criminal elements from infiltrating the community and provoking any unlawful activity

To liaise with the local Police and give them the fullest cooperation in dealing with any criminal activity including terrorist threat

"Help one another to virtue and God-consciousness and do not help one other to sin and transgression" (5:2)

To proactively engage with the media in order to refute any misconception about Islam and the Muslim community

To develop active contacts with other faith communities and civic organisations in order to help maintain social peace and good community relations

In the event of any tragic incident taking place, give the fullest cooperation to the police and other concerned authorities

Lastly, but most importantly, seek Allah's help and support and pray for His guidance and protection all the time.
We also urge you to convey the above message in your Friday sermon and bring awareness to our community of our duties and obligations in combating any threat to peace and stability.

By doing so, insha'Allah it will help to dispel the misrepresentation.

There is no need however to be daunted or intimidated by any Islamophobic propaganda

Muslim Council of Britain
There is no need however to be daunted or intimidated by any Islamophobic propaganda and we should continue with our daily lives - normally and in accordance with the tenets of Islam.

All of us as Muslims will have been appalled to see some of the headlines in today's newspapers (for example 'Islamic Bomb Plot Foiled' - Daily Telegraph; 'The Truck Bombers of Suburbia', The Times 2004).

This kind of sensationalised reporting has done immense damage to British Muslims as well as to community relations and we assure you that the MCB's Media Committee will be taking this matter up urgently with the editors concerned.

You will no doubt recall that in November 2002 the police made high-profile arrests of six Muslims accused of plotting to release cyanide gas into London's Underground system.

Yet nearly 18 months later, none of the men have been charged with any crime, let alone being convicted of terrorist activity.

There are other examples of incidents that have received prominent media attention only for the individuals to be subsequently released without any charges brought against them.

The impact of such ordeals on the persons concerned and their families is unbearable. Therefore we urge against hasty pronouncements of guilt.

The Muslim Council of Britain is planning to organise a number of events and meetings of which we shall keep you duly informed.

"O believers, be patient and let your patience never be exhausted. Stand firm in your faith and fear Allah, so that you may triumph." (3:200)

May Allah protect and guide us.

Yours sincerely

Iqbal AKM Sacranie
Secretary General
The Muslim Council of Britain "


I believe this to be a genuine call for peace but it is one voice amongst many. Additionally, to liken all muslims to al queda is the same as saying all the Irish are in the IRA. Those of us who have served over there in the 70's & 80's know that is completely untrue.

Lets hope that this voice is louder, if not lets prepare our Anthrax island.

[Marina]

Sticky,

Some muslim parents are quite frightened to send their young children to some of these mosques to learn Arabic and the Koran for the fear of them being brainwashed and so are being taught privately at home. Many families have been fractured because their children have left home to join these terror groups.

What they are preaching is haram, and what they are doing is haram. Suicide is illegal in Islam.

P.S
Omar Bakri is NOT a spiritual leader, he is an idiot.

[Lucent]

It's like some bizarre 'Man from UNCLE', 'New Avengers' or 'Fu Manchu' (showing my age here now ) TV plot where teenagers are mesmerised into reacting to key words and turn into suicidal automatons bent on killing their named target. Unfortunately theres no Max Smart to put paid to the bad guys.

A growing number of young Muslim men in Britain want to train to become suicide bombers, a BBC investigation has revealed.
On a drizzly Friday night in an old church in London's East End about 60 young men sit wrapped up against the cold.

While others head for bars and nightclubs, these members of the radical Islamic group, al-Muhajiroun are about to hear a lesson entitled: "The virtue of the self sacrifice operation".

....

"You will be patient and you will persevere and maybe if you are accepted into that network of fighters you, too, will get an order."

....

Tonight, he rallies the crowd by listing places in America, Africa and the Middle East where suicide bombers have already struck, before coming closer to home: "If somebody decided to land an aeroplane over 10 Downing Street, for example - this is a form of self sacrifice", he tells them.

[may18]

Ive always felt that one of the biggest dangers of the people such as abu hamza and those seen burning the union jack is the hatred that is created.

The cycle seems to be

Extremists go to the streets preaching hate

The press then seizes on it giving lots of coverage.

People associate this with mainstream muslims (incorrectly of course)

Muslims are then viewed with distrust by sections of the population.

This in turn makes the youngsters feel as if they dont "belong", making them more vulverable to preachings of those such as abu hamza

[Jagd]

I know this would never happen, but in theory couldn't you be hanged for burning the Britich flag? (doesn't it constitute treason?)
As for stripping Hamza's citizenship, I don't think he's actually a British citizen (or is it subject?) because if he were, deportation, which the home office is trying to get, wouldn't be possible.

[may18]

Burning the union jack is not a criminal offence

hamza obtained citizenship via marriage although it turned out to be bigamous.

I may be wrong but i believe the attempts to deport him have been hampered by the EU deciding his human rights are being abused

[Marina]

Sticky wrote

The problem is that those who listen to him take his word as the word of a cleric or 'the word of Allah'.

These people are also mentally incapacitated and there is some chemical imbalance in their brains. They should be under psychiatric treatment and have someone like ‘Nurse Ratchet’ (One Flew Over The Cookoo’s Nest) or that other Nurse from ‘Misery’ to look after them.
I wish I knew the answer on how de-programme their brains.

I really cannot understand why and how did this Omar Bakri managed to enter and live in this country legally ? Why can’t he be charged under the new ‘anti-terrorism laws’ or have a gagging order or something.

[Guest]

I think its telling that no member of any of these al-Muhajiroun type groups has actually ever been arrested or charged. This leads me to think that they're just a bunch of loudmouthed publicity-seekers who spew a lot of propaganda without actually carrying it out.

That Hassan Butt guy for example, he was going round with a loudspeaker in Pakistan exhorting the faithful to take up arms during the Afghan war, funny how he never went to do jihad himself then!

And then the cheeky b*stard comes back here and tries to sell his story to some tabloid newspaper!!

I think the media are responsible as well for giving clowns like Omar Bakri too much airtime in the first place.

[Frank S.]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ ... index.html

France to expel imam who preached wife-beating

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- France will expel an Algerian-born Muslim prayer leader for defending the stoning and beating of adulterous wives as acceptable in Islam even though illegal under French law, the Interior Ministry said Tuesday.

Abdelkader Bouziane, 52, imam of a mosque in the Lyon suburb of Venissieux in eastern France, told the monthly Lyon Mag that the Koran allowed husbands to beat unfaithful spouses as long as they did not strike them in the face.

The Interior Ministry said Bouziane was arrested Tuesday and an expulsion order against him would be applied immediately. Bouziane has lived in France since 1979.

"The government cannot tolerate that remarks are made publicly against human rights and dignity, especially the dignity of women, or that there are calls to hate or violence or apologies for terrorism," it said.

France, whose five million Muslims make up Europe's largest Islamic minority, expelled a radical preacher to his native Algeria last week for preaching radical Islam and defending the March 11 Madrid train bombs that killed 191 people.

Three Turkish imams have also been expelled this year.

After his interview caused an uproar in Lyon, Bouziane told journalists he was only explaining what the Koran said. "Religion says this and the law says that, but I was never against the law," he said before his arrest.

Dalil Boubakeur, the moderate head of the French Council of the Muslim Faith, declared Islam was not a religion that favored beating women but also denounced what he called a "media witchhunt against ignorant and frustrated imams."

"These are comments nobody can accept," said Laid Bendidi, vice-chairman of the regional Muslim council in Lyon. "He forgot he lives in a free, tolerant and democratic country."

Venissieux's mayor Andre Gerin rang an alarm bell after the interview appeared, urging France's justice and interior ministers to investigate Bouziane's preaching, which he said "pollutes our neighborhoods and our kids' heads."

Justice Minister Dominique Perben gave the first official reaction Tuesday morning, telling France 2 television: "This man will have to explain his statements to a court."

Many mosques in France import imams from Arab states, a policy French authorities and moderate French Muslims oppose as a potential open door to radical Islam. But there are too few imams educated in France to staff all mosques.

In the interview, Bouziane openly identified himself as a salafist, or strict fundamentalist, but repeatedly denounced terrorism and denied he supported radical political Islam.

[Frank S.]

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- France must tackle the issue of training Muslim prayer leaders in a moderate "French Islam" that respects human rights and rejects terrorism, Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin says.

Speaking a day after he deported an Algerian imam for saying Islam let husbands beat adulterous wives, Villepin urged the country's prefects Thursday to expel any foreign preacher who advocated violence, hate, racism or abuses of human rights.

Only about 10 percent of imams in France are citizens and about half of all imams in the country speak French, experts say.

Most are imported from Arab countries, where some have been trained in radical Islamist views that clash with France's secular laws.

But mainstream Muslim leaders' calls for help require funds, scarce at a time when France is struggling to cut its huge budget deficit. Their appeals for subsidies also conflict with the country's strict separation of church and state.

"We must face the issue of training imams," Villepin told a meeting of prefects, who oversee the application of government policy in departments across France.

"I ask you to help the Muslim faith get organized better and more quickly so a real French Islam can emerge," he said, adding that training programs would help the official French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) to supervise imams.

Abdelkader Bouziane, 52, who preached in a mosque near Lyon, was packed off to Algiers Wednesday after he told a magazine that Islam allowed the stoning and beating of unfaithful wives.

France expelled another imam last week for preaching radical Islam and defending the Madrid train bombs that killed 191 people.

Zero tolerance
"We will not tolerate any preacher, of any philosophy or religion, who advocates violence, abuse of human rights, hate and racism or who has links to organizations that condone terrorism," Villepin said.

CFCM chairman Dalil Boubakeur, rector of the moderate Grand Mosque of Paris, requested state aid Tuesday to launch a seminary to train imams in a tolerant "French Islam."

The Grand Mosque and a rival group offer some imam training courses, but these are not officially recognized and teach differing versions of Islamic theology.

"The CFCM must tackle the problem of training imams, but the state must also help us with a minimum of financing to create a training institute," Boubakeur said.

Bordeaux imam Mahmoud Doua said prayer leaders in France -- some of whom have no training at all -- needed a modern education. "The ideal would be a university education in both the social sciences and Koranic studies," he said.

Mohammad Kouba, an administrator of the An-Nour mosque near Caen in Normandy, told Reuters his congregation never hired foreign imams because they did not understand life in France.

"We tell our girls to respect French laws on secularism, even if that means they have to take off their headscarves in state schools," he said. "An imam from Saudi Arabia would not tell you to obey a French law."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/04 ... index.html