What happens if the UK.....

[Gary_amsterdam]

Gary, that was quite a bold statement to make, I certainly don't agree with it. How can you generalize that several thousand people going about there day jobs that your average person no matter where does are the same as Usama Bin Laden? Just think about that before you say it.

The USA is becoming a scary place but it could be alot worse as all you lot who have been overseas know.

I never made any statement, I just tried to remind you that other people have other points of view, Osama bin Laden beleaves what he is doing is right and so do we guys. Ofcourse I find it unhumane that he planned the 11 sep attacks but he had his reasons for wanting to do so, it just shows what people are capable of.

[Jon]

Even if OBL is caught nothing will change. Al Quida is not like a simple organistion were by killing the leader it will disintergrate. It is a network of interlocking and independant groups, small and large, who can just as easily work independately as attached. Catch Bin Laden and someone else will take over him. But there will still be thousands of sleepers spread throughout the world who can launch an attack at any time they choose. They follow him because they belief in the same principles. Killing Bin Laden will just create a martyr for them and will do nothing to deafeat thier misguided beliefs.

Al Quaida is too complex too be defeated and has no rules or boundaries of operation. The only real way to defeat them is to stop each active cell in its tracks and to limit thier capibilities. Its a strategic campaign in which key players need to be targeted and remvoed so that the masses have a limited supply of support. Armies can be used to defeat governments which support them (not implying that Saddam supported OBL) but intelligence services must be used to tackle the individual operative.

Terrorism and islamic extremism will always exist. All we can do is defend and combat, but never destroy. Even if be some miracle every extremist is wiped off the planet, there will always be some nutter to create havoc.

People support OBL because they feel oppressed by the West. The same way that some people support those responsible for the columbine massacre and the IRA. The same way that some people supported GWB in Iraq. Conflicting views will always cause conflict.

[Wholley]

Jon,
Well you really have got me flumoxed on this.
How do you compare Columbine with Al-Quada and the IRA?
I fail to see a connection between two bullied and sour school kids
and organised terrorism.
I'm sure you will enlighten me.
Wholley.

[Whitey]

Yeah I don't see the connection between 2 pissed off homosexual nerds and a self proclaimed zillionare with a real plan who runs a terror syndicate. Maybe they are similar because they both enjoy packing fudge? I do see similaraties between chairman Mao and Klinton though.

[anglo-saxon]

This is all good and well, but in the end we are simply talking about the manpulation of the ignorant masses by the monied and "enlightened" few. And it really doesn't matter if we are considering Americans, Canadians, Bristish, Iraquis, Saudis, Afghanis, or whatever. The principle is the same. We've all been lied to at some stage by those in power and we always will be. Governements are inherrently corrupt. It is just a matter of degree from one country to the next. Absolute power, after all, corrupts absolutely. It is the way of man. Some are simply more overt about it, while others are more sophisticated. What really sucks is that soldiers die needlessly as a result.

A-S

[Wholley]

A-S,
High Five on that.
Wholley.

[grayberet]

Frank S.
Yes...you are very right in a way...but cutting thru the BS is were it's at. Truths come with facts..many take years and years to come online..some come sooner...Right...babbling is of NO help. UK and the USA and a few others are all in the same boat the way I see it. It's a very important in the killing zones today and for the years to come. As for all the above...I do feel that some (not all) call it what you may..will come to light in time. I like many would like it TODAY. Nothing starts or stops when folks are asleep and not standing up for they freedoms and the TRUTH.

[Frank S.]

...but cutting thru the BS is were it's at.

I hear you loud and clear on that. I think part of the reason military forums of various kinds have seen such an increase in memberships since 9/11 is that folks look for opinions from people who have 'been there' and made sense of it.
I do think common sense does much to cut through BS, but it also has to be steeped in experience. Only then can we evaluate the validity of information with a relative degree of certainty.

[grayberet]

Frank S.

Yes...Yes and Yes.
Thanks I needed that and we ALL need to keep this in mind.

[Sisyphus]

When a Democrat enters the White House, peoples' expectations of the Head of State decline collectively.
Same with Labour in Britain and the Liberals in Canada

Just caught onto this thread. So many good points I wish I could 'quote' on. But df2's is a good one. At least, it prompted this question:

When was the last time anyone [in any country] had any 'expectations' of their Head of State? Apart from expecting them to be slimeballs, that is.

Just for the record, that megalomaniac cow Thatcher was on her way out and sacrificed over 250 good men in the Falklands for her own political survival. Wasn't her main question to {?} 'If we try to get them [the Falklands] back can we win?'

A bit like Churchill in 1940, then? NOT

I tend to the view that 'Governments are harmul and unnecessary'. Or do we all applaud our politicians' efforts?

[Whitey]

I can remember when I was a little boy going to Klan BBQ's hosted by Democrats.
Used to be Democrats were conservative thus the name Dixiecrat.
Now them same boys are all about Affirmative Discrimination, self hating MLK repentence. The Republicans on the other hand are now like Rhoms Brown Shirts, and the only BBQ they throw is napalm on Arabs, our political system is confusing to me.

[Jon]

Jon,
Well you really have got me flumoxed on this.
How do you compare Columbine with Al-Quada and the IRA?
I fail to see a connection between two bullied and sour school kids
and organised terrorism.
I'm sure you will enlighten me.
Wholley.

Im not trying to make a connection. Im merely stating that there will always be supporters of people who other people consider as enemies and evil. I read about the two columbine murderers and how they now have widespread sympathy (heard a statement from one kid who said that they were justified in thier actions). Actions deemed evil by many can also be justified in the eyes of others. We call OBL evil. Yet millions belief that 9/11 was justified.