Bulldog: What is the difference between what the IRA have been doing, compared to what the ANC did in South Africa. As a South African, i too have seen the suffering of terrorist actions. Yet BOTH the UK and the USA agreed with the terrorist methods of the ANC. I am not taking this into a racial argument, so please don't start on that. This is purely a comment on also the UK's innocence in agreeing with terrorism when it suits their cause??
The truth is the terrorism question is much more complex than most people want to admit these days. All these examples don't fit into a black and white worldview very easily.
These terrorist groups have been left too long to do what they want and have grown to sizes where, we in the west dont know which group is what. Bin laden should have been proved for the US embassey bombing a couple years ago and WE should of sorted the arab OUT.
Boer You are correct there is in fact no difference that I can see. All nations are responsible at one time or another for supporting terrorism. Perhaps we should all stop being so arrogant in blaming everyone else and claiming innocence when challenged. Now is the right time to Stop, reflect on the past and move forward with all nations (ALL NATIONS, & RELIGONS) agreeing to dissolve their association with any organisation once there cause is voiced through terrorism. Otherwise we will be back to square 1, with each bureaucracy deciding within its own borders what it deems as acceptable barbarism in areas which do not touch its own culture, and if it does which side they will fall on. But it requires Unity and that is not something which is given freely. Mores the pity.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-13 13:05 ]</font>
"America allows terrorism to grow and prosper in Northern Ireland?" That's bull, Bull. The US has no more control over private donations going to Ireland than it does over private donations going to Israel.
Kool, Thank you, that is exactly the attitude I'm describing, "Arrogance" I wonder how much private American funding and CIA training Bin Laden and his Cronies have recieved? If the USA cannot control private funding to the Terrorists in NI then how can they expect to do so anywhere else, because they have had full cooporation from the British Government and the Inteligence to prevent funding Terrorists in NI. If they wanted to they could have. At the time they just didn't want to.
What was it that JFK said - It takes a good man to do nothing for evil to prevail.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BullDog on 2001-12-14 18:47 ]</font>
About the IRA. I am an American obviously. I hope I can be forgiven for telling the truth about my country at a time like this. Let it be known that I do love my country and would kill and die for it if nescesary.
But in my humble opinion, Americans in general don't do anything where there isn't profit for themselves involved. I don't recall a single time in my short 16 years that I've heard about IRA bombings and what not. I only starting hearing about new things when I started watching BBC World News. But I hardly knew a single thing about the IRA and the goings on until I watched "The Devils Own." A movie about an IRA commander coming to America (played by Brad Pitt). That's the best way for us to learn things is by watching movies I'm afraid. It seems to me that America never cared about the goings on in the UK before. Our leaders have made other mistakes in the past as well. WWII we locked up Japanese citizens on the west coast for fear that they would assits the Empirial troops had they invaded.
About Afghanistan. When the bombing first started, they were reporting that we were dropping food and supplies to the starving Afghan people. How humanitarian of us. And now I see reports about the poor treatment and lack of rights for women in Afghanistan. If I turned back the clock to before September 11th, then I wouldn't hear a thing about the goings on in Afghanistan. I barely knew what the country was until not long after the attacks. Now they're talking about Uzbekistan, Takmanistan (not sure if that's even the right spelling). The only reason I knew of Afghanistan is..... You guessed it, a movie. "The Beast" about Afghan rebels chasing a single Soviet tank through the desert. So what does this all mean? It means that I was watching reports on poorer quality farm products (prior to 9-11) while women were being beat every day, and while the Afghan people were starving. Our government never cared until now, but it would look good for our image if we looked like a bunch of Santas. I can go on and on about this sort of thing, but I think you all get the idea. I only speak the truth. I do love this great nation, which will never change. I would appreciate any comments on that.
MJB
Dupis, if you are truly interested in the troubles, start by reading: "Voices of Northern Ireland: Growing Up in a Troubled Land"- by Carolyn Meyer. It is written for young adults, and it manages to stear clear of bias. When I was a young man I read it, and it gave me a good solid foundation for further studies.
As for information on Afganistan I would suggest reading: "Understanding Islam: An Introduction to the Muslim Word"- by Thomas Lippman. Again this is a good "intro" book that is both easy to read, and will give you a foundation for further reaserch. (if you are interest)
Even though "The Beast" was a good movie (Ha)don't be a ditty-boppin', bubble gum smackin' MTV head. Seek truth, or at least the nearest thing to it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Teufelhunden on 2001-12-14 20:59 ]</font>
Es ein Teufelhunden!! I'll keep an eye out for those books. As for "The Beast," it was purely just a reference. I don't consider what I saw in it absolout truth to the whole nation, but I was simply stating that it was everything I knew of Afghanistan at the time. It was the only time I had heard of it. Knowing your screen name and it's origins, I sincerely hope that you don't hold what I said against me. And I hope you do believe me when I said/say that I love my country. In fact I turn 17 in March, and plan to join the DEP to head of to "The Island" not long after.
MJB
I dont think any one has the right to comment about Northern Ireland. One guys says he only heard what happens through films WELL this has been going on for more than 30 years. The fighting that happens and the Killing has been around for so long. Boxes go around looking for money to help the IRA in the US. I am angry that the US says that Bin laden must pay for attacking our country. What about the lives that are killed when the British Army is in N.I.
The troubles in N.I. have gone on for alot more than 30 years, more like hundreds.
Alot more has to come. The US has to prove itself as opposition against all terrorism, at the moment they have focused on al Qaeda, but will it end there or will they continue as they started?
LoL, I dunno about the collection boxes going around in the states, that sounds too funny sorry
Damn straight Defiant. They should stop messing around up there and just kill the people they know are involved in the terrorist groups, on both sides. I know that would make them martyrs, blahblah, but very few people want to fight anyway. It should all be done behind closed doors of course.
that is exactly the attitude I'm describing, "Arrogance" I wonder how much private American funding and CIA training Bin Laden and his Cronies have recieved? If the USA cannot control private funding to the Terrorists in NI then how can they expect to do so anywhere else, because they have had full cooporation from the British Government and the Inteligence to prevent funding Terrorists in NI. If they wanted to they could have. At the time they just didn't want to. 
I'll keep an eye out for those books. As for "The Beast," it was purely just a reference. I don't consider what I saw in it absolout truth to the whole nation, but I was simply stating that it was everything I knew of Afghanistan at the time. It was the only time I had heard of it. Knowing your screen name and it's origins, I sincerely hope that you don't hold what I said against me. And I hope you do believe me when I said/say that I love my country. In fact I turn 17 in March, and plan to join the DEP to head of to "The Island" not long after.
