Who are classed as Special Forces in the UK?

[Nomad]

What is the decider on which Unit or Regiment is classed as "SF" in the UK?

Who then are they?

[Beast]

Who does know, that is the question.
I could give a list, but i don't want to get flammed for not naming or missing out a regiment.
Any offers out there... who would like to make a list?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jay on 2001-12-07 20:47 ]</font>

[Steve C]

Maybe Special Forces could be defined as any unit that a civilian could not directly join, i.e a unit where regular military experience is one of the joining criteria. I consider paras and rms apart of the special forces brotherhood, so maybe this definition isn't suitable??

[Dupuis]

I don't have an answer, I just wanted to say Hi. I'm Mike, just another yankee.
MJB

[Beast]

Hi Mike.

I agree with you Steve, that Para's and RM's are part of SF's.

Or could it be down to the amount of training that these units do to be defined as SF?

[Defiant]

I think that Para's and RM dont really do the SF job that SAS or the SBS are currently doing. The RM werent allowed to do anything in afganistan and neither were the Para's.

Ask your self one question WHY not?

The para's and the RM have some of the best troops available to send but why is the SAS,SBS allowed to do their job but not the Para's and RM.

[El T]

I think you will find that the SBS are recruited directly from the Royal Marines with the occasional assignee, from other countries, who is given the opportunity to work with the SBS.

The SBS are, to my knowledge, a branch within the Royal Marines. They could have been a Driver, Clerk, Mountain Leader etc ..... but chose to be the elite - ie the SAS and more .......

[Steve C]

I dunno, it's hard to say if the Paras and RMCs are special forces. The US Rangers were operational in afghanistan and i'd put the royal marine commandos up against the rangers anyday.

As I recollect 200 marine commandos were put on standby in theatre with the other 400 on standby in britain. Maybe these 200 were BPT and SBS. The US already had the numbers of troops ready for assaults and so the british had a more of an intel gathering job for the bombing. SBS and BPT would be more suited to intel gathering than the RMC.

-Steve C

[Defiant]

I was just commenting that the Northern Alliance didnt want the RM in afganistan but the SAS and SBS were allowed to do their job. Yes i did know that the SBS are recruits from the RM so i dont see why there is a complaint about the RM being in the country.

[Steve C]

Maybe the NI were told that the SAS and SBS would be doing the laser targeting. The NI were desperate for bombing at the start so I guess they decided it was ok. Maybe they feared that after the taliban had been crushed, if the RMs and other units were there, they might have become occupation forces.

-Steve C

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Steve C on 2001-12-09 20:21 ]</font>

[Defiant]

You have seen it yourself. Nato would like a peace keeping Force in the country but with the limitation of shooting no-one. This way peace keepers cant help anyone Taliban will shoot cilivians then the Nato cant shoot back. If peace keepers go in it will be like another kosovo

[Nomad]

I think the Royal Marines believe themselves to be Conventional Troops.

Special Forces (SF) could be termed as troops who take part in special projects such as Counter Revolutionary Warfare (CRW) or Maritime Counter Terrorist (MCT). The SBSRM and SAS are deemed SF because they take an active part in both CRW and MCT. Commachio Gp Royal Marines also cover an MCT role along with Nuclear Protection duties.

In the late 1987 (Ish) Robin Ross Major General Royal Marines (MGRM) was the last MGRM (TRSF) Training & Special Forces which combined both the Special Boat Squadron (SBS) and P and O companies (Ports and Oil). This then changed to a different command structure which is Headquarters Director of Special Forces (HQDSF) and P & O went fully to Commachio Gp Royal Marines.

HQDSF consists of the SAS and the new Special Boat Service Royal Marines. This combined the selection course held at Hereford where all Arms complete the SF training which was once the SAS Selection. Royal Marines were then allowed direct entry into the SAS if they did not want to pursue a career as a Swimmer Canoeist (SC) (What the public saw as the SB Squadron Marine). Royal Marines are still required to complete the SC3’s course in Poole. I believe (but cannot confirm) that Boat Troop of the SAS complete the SC3 course. In the past a Royal Marine could only become SBS and not SAS directly. Only RM’s and RN personnel could join the SBS directly, on one occasion I am aware of an Australian who transferred to the SBS from an Australian Service but he had to enlist in the Royal Marines first.

Royal Marines who wished to join the SAS had to complete the pre-Training with R Squadron (23 SAS TA) in their own time and when accepted for SAS selection they had to leave the RM’s and be sponsored by an Army Regiment normally a Para Reg.

The Para’s are also conventional troops in my opinion...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nomad on 2001-12-11 16:29 ]</font>

[Nomad]

Also both the SAS and SBSRM have conventional roles, this is performed by C Squadron of the SBSRM and rotated between Sabre Squadrons of the SAS on a 6 monthly rota.

This role is for Int Gathering, sabotage raids, Beach and DZ reporting along with the role we assume through the press currently as part of the MultiNational Force in Afghanistan ie Lazer Target Marking (LTM).

[Teufelhunden]

If the Royal Marines belive themselves to be "conventional troops" it's only out of humility. Those fellas have their balls screwed on tight.

[Brian E]

I think Nomad has summed things up very well.
The RMs'are conventional forces which has elements within its structure who could be classed as special forces. i.e. SBS, BPT and FPG.