Poland breaks EU taboo and mentions the war

[SO19]

Poland breaks EU taboo and mentions the war
By George Jones
Last Updated: 2:38am BST 22/06/2007

Germany's role in the Second World War returned to disturb the harmony of the summit yesterday when Poland vowed to seek recognition of its five million dead.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the Polish prime minister, complained that Poland would have a far bigger population on which to base its EU voting power if it had not been for the Nazi invasion in September 1939 which started the war.

The Common Market, the forerunner of the EU, was formed in 1957 because European leaders were determined to prevent another conflict. Mr Kaczynski said a proposed new EU voting formula based on population size hurt his country because it had not recovered from its wartime losses.

"We are only demanding that we get back what was taken from us," he told Polish national radio.

"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."

Under the proposed "double majority" voting formula, a majority consists of 55 per cent of member states and 65 per cent of the EU's population. Germany, with 82 million, benefits most from the new system, while Poland, with 38 million loses relative power, compared with its neighbour.

Poland's five million war dead, including three million Jews, represented 18.51 per cent of its population at the time, a higher proportion than even the Soviet Union, whose 24 million dead represented 13.4 per cent of its population.

After the war, Poland was incorporated into the Soviet bloc.

After a long struggle against Communism, it regained its independence after the fall of the Berlin Wall and three years ago joined the EU. European leaders have traditionally adopted a "don't mention the war" approach and pointedly sought not to single out Germany for blame for the death and destruction wreaked on the continent.

Instead, they have attempted to look forward to the way European nations have buried nationalistic rivalries and worked together to form a highly successful trading bloc.

But Jean-Claude Juncker, Luxembourg's prime minister, acknowledged the wartime burden borne by Poland's leaders.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... tviewedbox

[Sisyphus]

Nice to see someone making the case for Poland. Pity it had to be a Pole. Our Polish (some years ago) neighbour's father, Henry worked in the Polish High Commissions in Africa, China etc.

He was a great guy [he knew more about parts of Brit history than I did - e.g. when the London Tube was built ]. Anyway we got round to discussing the war. He'd been a young man who worked in the slave-labour camps. Feeling his back you could feel ridges the thickness of your fingers all across his back where he'd been regularly beaten by the SS.

He said he'd 'happily' work with Germans - because he had to - but he'd never have one in his home.

The role of the Poles in the War has been completely overlooked in our history lessons.

He was most bitter about the fact that at the end of the war Russia, the UK, the US - and France, were at the table but not the Poles. The French surrendered to the Germans and collaborated with them in Vichy France, they also had French troops in Lebanon fighting the Allies, wouldn't scuttle their fleet in the Med, etc.

The Poles, never collaborated, ran a government in exile, had Polish battalions fighting in Europe, had some of the best pilots in the Battle of Britain, were the troops who launched the final assault on Monte Cassino, etc, etc.......

And then the 'Allies' handed them over to the Russians at the end of the War.

He wasn't a happy man!

[jabcrosshook]

I might go and step on a few toes here.
And this is slightly going off track, but I don't get why people still hold the war against the Germans, yes it was horrific but it's a long time ago now and the people who are alive now are not responsible for what happened then.
The war was caused by a some "loonies" and if I remember rightly there was conscription in Germany so many of the Germans involved in the fighting cannot be held responsible.
We should remember the fallen but now we should stop pointing the finger.

[owdun]

I was alive then, and am still alive now,just, and I still hate the Nazi breed and their Jap cohorts. Do not decrie peoples feelings about things you never experienced yourself, it's something people find easy to do today.


Owdun.

[owdun]

Now I remember why I can't be arsed to use these forums like I once did.



Owdun.

[Alfa]

And then the 'Allies' handed them over to the Russians at the end of the War.

Bit unfair to say that we simply handed them over to the Russians, I mean there was very little we could do really, the Soviets were in no mood to be messed about at the end of the war and the Red Army was firmly in control of Poland at that time and we were in no mood to start another war, especially as we were still fighting the Japanese.

It might not have been fair for Poland but then it wasn't really good for any of the Eastern European countries that were swallowed up by the Soviet Union but life is very rarely fair.

[SO19]

'Brisks', I would advise you to shut your f*cking mouth.

[Delboy]

Now I remember why I can't be arsed to use these forums like I once did.



Owdun.

Same here Frank. Place is filling up with immature little tossers.

Del

[jabcrosshook]

I was alive then, and am still alive now,just, and I still hate the Nazi breed and their Jap cohorts. Do not decrie peoples feelings about things you never experienced yourself, it's something people find easy to do today.


Owdun.

Sorry if I said something that you do not approve of or miffed you off, I was just placing my opinion across.
Sorry.

[owdun]

No problem,Jab, It's the smart arse answers that really piss me off.




Owdun.

[Doc]

Brisks I was going to PM you, but then there would be a reply, then I would have to reply and so on and so forth. Id launch my laptop out of the window and you'd still carry on being a plank

Result, one less laptop and one more plank

So can I therefore politely suggest you shape up or ship out

Doc

[harry hackedoff]

The obnoxious entity that is Brisks isn`t what these Forums are about.
We are.
It`s like working through jamming. Just ignore the little twat because he has nothing to contribute. Frank, ignore him mate, he`s not worth jack shit. Probably can`t even play snooker Fark him, he`s an arsewipe.

[Sisyphus]

Bit unfair to say that we simply handed them over to the Russians, I mean there was very little we could do really

If Poland had been 'at the table' like they should have been things could have been very different.

[Alfa]

Bit unfair to say that we simply handed them over to the Russians, I mean there was very little we could do really

If Poland had been 'at the table' like they should have been things could have been very different.

Not very likely anything would have changed even if they had of been "at the table" not with all those millions of Red Army soldiers stationed right across their country was it. The Soviets simply wouldn't have allowed them to be involved so it's just another "what if...." really isn't it.

The Soviets wanted Poland even before the war, remember it was them and the Germans who plotted the invasion of Poland that started the war.