how do they work?

[commando-or-para]

this is not a topic on whos the best or anything like that, so i hope some people dont get carried away.

i am not sure if this has been asked before but here goes....

i read that the paras have a method for breaking down new recruits
and the marines have a different method for this.
can anyone please shed some light how each one does it differently???

[Bungle]

I presume by ''breaking down'' you mean effectively ''brainwashing''?

If that is what you mean I read in Nigel Foster's ''The Making of a Royal Marines Commando'' that the Marines don't go about breaking people down unlike their counterparts in the USA and the French Foreign Legion.

[Tab]

I can't say as an ex paratrooper that I ever came across this sort of thing. What we did have was a fantastic esprit de corps just like in the Marines. You would do any thing for a mate or a fellow Para as the saying goes you are all brothers

[Artist]

Tabs spot on. Both Work hard & Play hard

During RM training you slowly become a Royal Marine by taking in all that is taught by the training teams. At no stage are you brainwashed. You just aquire the knowledge of both soldiering and being a Bootneck via the PW's (Personal weapons intructors) and DI's (Drill Instructors) who take you though training.

To this day I am still in contact with my DI and the PW who was my Section Commander during my recruit training. In fact me and Flighty are expecting a visit from my former DI this month. A gentleman called "Yorkie Malone" who I am proud to call my Oppo. He took me though training in 1973.

Artist

[Marina]

Thats good to know Artist and Tab

P.S
When I saw that Full Metal Jacket Film. I had nightmares, thinking you guys had to go through all that similar amount of pain !

[commando-or-para]

maby i am not too good at explaining things, so i will take a sapmple from the book the - making of a royal marines commando -

:when the recruitsfirst make their aquaintance with the drill square, much to their suprise they discover that royal marine drill instructors do not scream in high falsettos- do not go for the eye ball to eye ball confrontation that one finds at quantico (usmc) or catterick (brigade of guards) commands are audible, but shouted only if the troop is some distance away. And a rebuke - the recruits soon discover its all the more effective if its deliverd in a coldly contemptuous tone, almost conversationally, rather than screamed into ones ear from a distance of two inches:

:the recruits are not broken down and then reassembled into the corps image, as tends to happen in the usmc or french foreign legion:

............. what i ment was how do the paras do things, because the image i got was that they go for breaking you down like the screaming in the face, were its quotes that marines go for the cold look, is this how it happens,............... and/or could anyone shed light on this for me please

thanks for the time

[Artist]

Your treated like a human being for gods sake. And as I've already said you learn from your instructors the in and outs of being a Marine or Para.

Screaming into the face of a young lad the ins and outs of soldiering will only result in the lad wrapping his hand in and leaving after the first 12 weeks.

Firm but fair is the byword in Royal Marine training and I trust is the same in Para Training. Well it was when I was at CTC during my training and when I was training recruits.

Cock up and yes you will get flak in no uncertain terms. But, only after the first 14 weeks when it is taken as read that you are already up to the standard of a trained soldier. In other words you are expected to have the common dog required at that stage of training to know what to do.

If you ain't then you can take it as read that you are on the way back to Civvy Street ASAP.

Artist

[BigStevie]

'Shouting in your face'.....
My section cmdr was ex-3Para and when he started to try to make something of us he was on my back, until one day during a bollocking for something or other, i just stood there looking over his head and he could see that i was no longer taking it personnally.... he stopped, said 'Good' and from then on he and i got on the best, because we understood each other.
You have to remember we were virtually civs in uniform, and he had a hard job making us into an effective unit, but he did it; we would do what was needed, eventually even before he told us to, because it needed doing and we were on the same wavelength.

And it is something that has stayed with me to this day. I will always be a 'hat' but a very well motivated 'hat'.

[Kiwi1988]

You can not compare the French Foreign Legion to the USMC.
They are totally different in there training methods.

The FFL does not brainwash you, you give your life to them to be model into a legionaire, you life is forfiet.

You go into the legion not for the hell of it, you go there cause you ran out of opinions in normal life.

You lose all your identity as soon as you sign that paper, which most are looking for that cause of many reasons.

The USMC doesn't bust your gut's for the sake of it, they knock you a little so you will work within their system, they build on your strength of character and use that to their advantage.

Its called being part of the military. Being yelled at I think is the least of your problems.

Brainwashing good lord.

[Alfa]

............. what i ment was how do the paras do things, because the image i got was that they go for breaking you down like the screaming in the face, were its quotes that marines go for the cold look, is this how it happens,............... and/or could anyone shed light on this for me please

thanks for the time

No they don't break you down by screaming in your face. As soon as you start at Depot you hit the ground running and are learning new things every day, there's no time to "break you down" just to build you up!

If the Pltn staff want to prove a point or punish you for messing up a beasting is much more effective as not only does it make you far less likely to make that same mistake again it also builds you up physically, anyone can stand there and be shouted at it takes no effort at all but you KNOW when you've had a good thrashing

Parachute Regiment training teams lead from the front, they teach you how to "be a para" by leading by example not by trying to turn you into someone who can't think or act for themselves.

[Tab]

Commando-or-Para. Now I went through my training during the 1950's at period when all these TV programmes are set in call ed Bad Lads Army or Get some In and several other names and I never saw any thing like what they portray on Television as training. Yes we got chased around and yes we got shouted at, but the had just ten weeks to train an 18 year old to become a soldier before they sent of to combat in some part of the world. In those days you had all sorts going through the training from the bright to the mentally retarded, those that had no interest in learning they were trying to teach you. Now if understood that there is no way you are going to get out of doing your duty and if you wanted to stay alive then you learnt the lessons being taught things were that much easier.

[harry hackedoff]

Kiwi, you`ve hit the nail on the head there mate 100%
Unfortunately, it was the wrong nail
FFL and USMC work in very similar ways and are the complete opposite of recruit training in the Corps.
Both of those outfits strip away and reduce recruits to a standard of lowest common denominator and any vestige of individuality is stamped on. Then, like an empty vessel, they put back what they want their recruits to be. USMC recruits weren`t allowed writing implements for the first six weeks ffs and their first letter home is dictated to them as a group by one of the DS. I`ve seen it.
Royal has a completely different standpoint. We recognise the recruit`s individuality, his strenghts and weaknesses, and we build on those strenghts. It`s a far more difficult method of training for the Instructors as it requires more thought than brute force and ignorance does.
I know I`m right mate, the results speak for themselves

And where I say Royal that probably applies to Para Reg

[Alfa]

The weirdest thing about the US Marines is the way their recruits have to refer to themselves in the third person, I've always thought there was something seriously wrong with that plus it makes them all sound schizo

[Kiwi1988]

Kiwi, you`ve hit the nail on the head there mate 100%
Unfortunately, it was the wrong nail
FFL and USMC work in very similar ways and are the complete opposite of recruit training in the Corps.
Both of those outfits strip away and reduce recruits to a standard of lowest common denominator and any vestige of individuality is stamped on. Then, like an empty vessel, they put back what they want their recruits to be. USMC recruits weren`t allowed writing implements for the first six weeks ffs and their first letter home is dictated to them as a group by one of the DS. I`ve seen it.
Royal has a completely different standpoint. We recognise the recruit`s individuality, his strenghts and weaknesses, and we build on those strenghts. It`s a far more difficult method of training for the Instructors as it requires more thought than brute force and ignorance does.
I know I`m right mate, the results speak for themselves

And where I say Royal that probably applies to Para Reg

Harry yeah only can go on what I have been told, married to one and partner of another.

LMAO! not at the same time mind you