Vietnam?????

[Guest]

Hercky my dad is waiting to hear from you and welcome you into the FSB Airborne Club. Not many left, about 19, 20 counting you. Good group of guys.
I pm'd you and give him a ring, I called him at work and he is very excited and looking forward to talking to you. He says they'd been completely over run had it not been for you guys in the air. I have pictures and will post them once I get my other computer cleaned. I opened a virus on it it seems.
But the pictures of the aftermath from a soldiers point of view are obvious.
Those sappers really did a number on that hill. My dad actually carried the wounded pow to the lz.

I'll be talking to him, Don. Thanks. I'll say again, you lads on the ground got big huevos.(although I HAVE wondered why on earth you didn't come mess around 'up in sky...giant silver bird!)

[buford]

I don't know about examiners liking little known facts, but I know from long experience of doing and setting them, that they love the 'compare and contrast' stuff. So, how about some stuff on:

1 The way Ho adapted Mao's G tactics, (particulaly the use of tunnels and underground bunkers to counteract US air power),

2. The way the US did not learn tactically from the mistakes of the French,

3. The role of journalists getting in close in combat units, or the influence of journalists like Bernard Fall, and compare that with how journalists were 'embedded' in Iraq, and the influence of the media and politicians fear of media shaping of public opinion, on strategy and tactics,

4. The use of combat statistics like 'body count' and 'safe areas' to indicate that the war was being 'won', ie the emergence of MacNamara's corporate balance sheet approach as the precurser to todays 'spin'.

Good luck!

[Guest]

Holy Cow! I haven't been set ant assignments like that in a loong time!...It's late here, I'll start tomorrow.

[Guest]

I don't know about examiners liking little known facts, but I know from long experience of doing and setting them, that they love the 'compare and contrast' stuff. So, how about some stuff on:

1 The way Ho adapted Mao's G tactics, (particulaly the use of tunnels and underground bunkers to counteract US air power),

2. The way the US did not learn tactically from the mistakes of the French,

3. The role of journalists getting in close in combat units, or the influence of journalists like Bernard Fall, and compare that with how journalists were 'embedded' in Iraq, and the influence of the media and politicians fear of media shaping of public opinion, on strategy and tactics,

4. The use of combat statistics like 'body count' and 'safe areas' to indicate that the war was being 'won', ie the emergence of MacNamara's corporate balance sheet approach as the precurser to todays 'spin'.

Good luck!

1. Ho adapted (and granted, expanded, added new...)tunnels which had been there for a very long time. I carried a group of 'tunnel rats' into the CuChi tunnel complex when it was blown open by an ArcLite raid in '68... afterwards, they said part of the complex had 'worked stone' walls...old. All the same, those tactics and tunnels work great! see Afganistan.
.2. The US DID learn from the French's mistakes... we did it all over again, but in English!
.3. I don't want to go here... lotsa american boys dead because of Journalists and their 'spin', twistinglies, etc...
.4. Combat Statistics... don't forget that military promotions were/are based on this info, press budgets, politicians' re-election plans, 'Defence Contractors' contract renewals, so everyone has a vested interest in 'keeping the trough full'... at whatever cost... ethics/morals/decency? the he*ll with them, they don't make money or bring power...

[Liver]

Thanx for that some really interesting stuff - i know that i should concentrate on the main stuff and not these random facts but wanted to see if i could set my paper appart from others ... anyway i did my exam ages ago .... just waiting for the results now and thanx again enjoyed reading it all

cheers Liver

[Lucent]

This sums up SE Asian policy. When Colin Powell was sent in mid 60's, he was attached to a ARVN unit as an advisor. When he arrived at his posting
out in the boonies, a small base beside a small airstrip, he asked the OC of the unit alongside whom he was working why they were there. The Lt replied that they were
there to protect the base. Lt. Powell asked why the base was there, and the ARVN Lt replied it was there to defend the airfield. He then asked why the airfield was there. The ARVN replied..yes you guessed it, that the airstrip was there to supply the base. So, the base was to defend the airfield, which was used to supply the base. Apart from that, they served no useful purpose. Another thing Powell mentioned in his book was about MAM's. These were military age males. Once they were military age they were more than likely VC. If Helo-gunners saw one in a paddy-field, he would fire a burst off in front of him and if he ran, then he was VC and would be killed. War tends to blur any finer distinctions.

I was just wondering if anyone knows any little known facts about Vietnam for two reasons, firstly its interesting and secondly and most importantly i have a GCSE history exam on vietnam soon and i thought that to include facts like that would make me look better - the only one i have so far is the Aussie SAS kill to casualty ratio - cheers Liver

[buford]

.3. I don't want to go here... lotsa american boys dead because of Journalists and their 'spin', twistinglies, etc...

That really brings home the difference between studying this and living it. That's the real lesson I guess. Thanks for the reminder Herc.

[Redhand]

The yanks certainly could of done it.

1. If they had just listened to the Brits and stuck to the Strategic Hamlets program.

2. Kept President Diem in power from the start. The liberal media in the states helped murder a good man.

3. Only a farked up administration let Laos remain neutral. Laos should of staked its ground as an ally. The NVA and VC could care less about neutrality. Laos acted as a supply super highway into Vietnam, and all the yanks could do was plug holes on on an exploding dam.

Overall, i think it was more the 5th column home front who spoiled a chance to stop communist aggression. While there was some inbred US Army policy that lead to the eventual retreat, i don't think they were as much to blame as were the media and the whining saps at home.

[The Cheat]

A turning point for the American public was the battle for Hue. Comparativly fewer casualties than other battles of that scale, yet more media coverage. Result; more pictures of dead soldiers on the news... Thus bad fealings back home...
The Media bringing the war to people's living rooms brought the realities home to them. Even though, as said before, fewer draftees than thought were used, the near live coverage instilled fear amongst their families... Who put presure on the polititians to get it over with or get out.

[Jon]

It was Ho Chi Minh who said that "for every one of your soldiers that we kill, you can kill ten of ours. But it will be you who will tire."

[Tab]

A little known fact is that the British and Indian force ran French Indo China from the end of WW2 until the French could train and equip a army to take over. This took about about 18 months, during that time to keep trouble at a minimum Britain re-equiped many of the Japanese soldiers and turned them lose on the VC. There was not a lot of trouble during this period. The trouble really started when the French heros of WW2 arrived and started to lay down the law.

[Chuckie1970]

I know this is late, but I have some info (Aussie perspective) which you might like on Vietnam. This story I am about to tell you will give you an idea of what it was like for allied troops.

My boss was an Aussie interrogator in Vietnam. One day they they caught a Viet Cong (North Vietnamese) officer. The interrogation went for days, the prisoner never said a word. Then in very good English he spoke. He said "You will not win this war, you don't have the heart. You don't want to be here and this is not your war. This is our home we have the heart to defend it and we want to be here."

My boss sat down and looked at the prisoner, he was right. They didn't want to be there, the majority of them were conscripted men (the Aussies were picked by their birth date in a national lottery draw to go to Vietnam). The prisoner never spoke again.

And from what I can gather from other Aussie Vietnam Vets that I know, in the end the allied forces didn't win the prisoner was right.

In Australia we have what we call Anzac day it's basically a public holiday to honour our armed forces personnel. This includes dawn services, marches in cities and towns. The Vietnam War was over in the 1970's and Australia never recognised or honoured our Vietnam Vets till the 1990's, they had a stigma attached to them, it was horrible. We also have what we call RSLs clubs (Returned Servicemen Leagues), these too didn't recognise them until recently. It was shameful how the Australian community treated our boys, and I dare say it is going to take years for this issue to calm down. As most Vet's are still angry at their treatment and rightly so.

I hope this gives you an insight into the Vietnam War.

[Redhand]

Same here in Canada,

Difference being they're STILL not recognized nor given any veterans benefits of any kind.

Theres purportedly around 30,000 of them, many of them were half and halfers, many of them volunteered.

[Rover]

An interesting site,

http://www.vwam.com

For Canadians go direct to,

http://vwam.com/vets/canadians.html

For Australians go direct to,

http://www.vwam.com/vets/austra.html

Rover

[Chuckie1970]

Redhand ... I am sorry to hear that about the Canadians... What is the reasoning behind the Canadian Government?