Thought so.
Anyone know how to tell the difference between the A1 and A2 versions of the SA80s in the pictures because I can't really see the difference from those angles.
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"Torture " photos may be fakes
no offence intended with the remf thing
The pouches (pooches for all you boots) ae a giveaway aren't they. The question is - if they are fakes who did them and why. Of course it COULD be a real prisoner and the pix are faked anyway like all I see is a guy with his foot near his face. If you were the guy with the hood on you would never have known.
Good point about the piss stream. It looks suspiciously like the sort of stream one would get if using an emptied decontamination bottle to squirt water. It could be squaddy humour, which would still be a very bad show. But we all know how fast word gets round in units. If someone had done this in my unit everyone would know by next fag break (tactical of course!) and given the amount of shit flying here SOMEONE would squeak about it. Probably a SNCO would know in a few hours and then its goodnight vienna.
I think we can all agree that these phots aren't what they appear to be.
The pouches (pooches for all you boots) ae a giveaway aren't they. The question is - if they are fakes who did them and why. Of course it COULD be a real prisoner and the pix are faked anyway like all I see is a guy with his foot near his face. If you were the guy with the hood on you would never have known.
Good point about the piss stream. It looks suspiciously like the sort of stream one would get if using an emptied decontamination bottle to squirt water. It could be squaddy humour, which would still be a very bad show. But we all know how fast word gets round in units. If someone had done this in my unit everyone would know by next fag break (tactical of course!) and given the amount of shit flying here SOMEONE would squeak about it. Probably a SNCO would know in a few hours and then its goodnight vienna.
I think we can all agree that these phots aren't what they appear to be.
Last edited by gasrod on Mon 03 May, 2004 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dolly Gray
- Member
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Fri 21 Dec, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Deal
Agree with what you say on the kit it is brand new, you can see the the yoke has never been handled, as we know it is one part that does get greasy grubby, in the photo it shines new - The weapon is also very clean!
very clean indeed.
When taking part in E& E you invariably end up on the last day with your head in the hessian sack. Now hessian is very rough,annoying and fibrous dusty so you are always spitting out. and the bit in front of and left and right of your moth can get a wee bit damp if your in it for some time.
Unless the bag was put on specifically for the photo which is a possibility The blood stain we can see says to me it does not look right, its too false in its shape
If you are not gagged and someone has hit you in the mouth, broken your teeth and rammed a barrel down your throat there it will be bleeding, a lot, you will be spitting out directly to your front onto the hessian, add to that your head is moving around in the bag the actually shape that the blood stain on the sack takes is wide and abstract, the only reason that blood would form as shown in the phot like this would be if you were lying on your side and unconcious but its going in the wrong direction. The head that is in that bag is obviously not unconcious from its angle.
what this going to do is start a flood of claims for compensation and free entry into the UK. we shall see.
Dolly
very clean indeed.
When taking part in E& E you invariably end up on the last day with your head in the hessian sack. Now hessian is very rough,annoying and fibrous dusty so you are always spitting out. and the bit in front of and left and right of your moth can get a wee bit damp if your in it for some time.
Unless the bag was put on specifically for the photo which is a possibility The blood stain we can see says to me it does not look right, its too false in its shape
If you are not gagged and someone has hit you in the mouth, broken your teeth and rammed a barrel down your throat there it will be bleeding, a lot, you will be spitting out directly to your front onto the hessian, add to that your head is moving around in the bag the actually shape that the blood stain on the sack takes is wide and abstract, the only reason that blood would form as shown in the phot like this would be if you were lying on your side and unconcious but its going in the wrong direction. The head that is in that bag is obviously not unconcious from its angle.
what this going to do is start a flood of claims for compensation and free entry into the UK. we shall see.
Dolly
The mirror is standing by its claims
and alleging its widespread with "hundreds" of incidents.
UK troops 'swapped abuse photos'
The Mirror has rejected allegations the pictures were fake
British soldiers have swapped hundreds of photos showing brutality against Iraqi captives, it has been claimed.
The allegations are made by two soldiers who gave the Daily Mirror pictures apparently showing UK troops abuse an Iraqi prisoner.
Army sources have raised doubts about whether the images are genuine.
But the two serving members of The Queen's Lancashire Regiment have stood by their story and say: "The Army knows a lot more has happened."
One said: "Maybe the officers don't know what is going on - but everybody else does. I have seen literally hundreds of pictures."
'Baton attack'
Doubts were cast over the weekend about photos published in Saturday's Mirror appearing to show a hooded man being struck with a rifle butt, urinated on and having a gun held to his head.
But the two soldiers who gave these images to the paper say they represent only the tip of the iceberg.
In Monday's Mirror the soldiers, who wish to remain anonymous, claim many pictures were destroyed in September when the troops' luggage was searched as they left Iraq.
They also detail other alleged incidents of brutality towards local people, including a baton attack which left a prisoner with a compound fracture to his arm.
The people that carried out these sickening acts simply have no place in the British Army
Piers Morgan
Daily Mirror editor
Mirror statement in full
Iraq torture photos row widens
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said the authorities were not aware of other photos of prisoners being mistreated or of a culture of trading pictures.
"If people have got evidence of such activity, then they should bring it to the attention of the Army authorities. We won't stand for activity like that," he said.
The MoD spokesman was unable to confirm reports the regiment was given a dressing down in their Cyprus base by a senior officer.
The Mirror's editor Piers Morgan earlier said the alleged abuse had been "common knowledge among disgusted British servicemen in Basra for months".
Suspicion
An investigation has already begun into the claims, also carried in the Mirror, that British troops assaulted the prisoner pictured in the paper, before throwing him from a lorry.
BBC defence correspondent Paul Adams said sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment were suspicious about the authenticity of the photographs questioning whether the rifle, hats and truck pictured matched those issued to men in Iraq.
The images have already been seen in the Middle East
And they asked why there appeared to be no sign of sweat, dirt or injuries on the body of the alleged victim.
Colonel Bob Stewart, who commanded British forces in the Balkans, told BBC News Online he could not say whether the photos were genuine.
Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told BBC One's Breakfast with Frost programme: "There is a very high-level investigation taking place. The allegations are terrible."
Army spokesman Roger Goodwin, on behalf of the regiment, said: "Whether the soldiers involved in the alleged atrocities were members of the QLR needs to be established.
"There is no place in our regiment for individuals capable of such appalling and sickening behaviour."
and alleging its widespread with "hundreds" of incidents.
UK troops 'swapped abuse photos'
The Mirror has rejected allegations the pictures were fake
British soldiers have swapped hundreds of photos showing brutality against Iraqi captives, it has been claimed.
The allegations are made by two soldiers who gave the Daily Mirror pictures apparently showing UK troops abuse an Iraqi prisoner.
Army sources have raised doubts about whether the images are genuine.
But the two serving members of The Queen's Lancashire Regiment have stood by their story and say: "The Army knows a lot more has happened."
One said: "Maybe the officers don't know what is going on - but everybody else does. I have seen literally hundreds of pictures."
'Baton attack'
Doubts were cast over the weekend about photos published in Saturday's Mirror appearing to show a hooded man being struck with a rifle butt, urinated on and having a gun held to his head.
But the two soldiers who gave these images to the paper say they represent only the tip of the iceberg.
In Monday's Mirror the soldiers, who wish to remain anonymous, claim many pictures were destroyed in September when the troops' luggage was searched as they left Iraq.
They also detail other alleged incidents of brutality towards local people, including a baton attack which left a prisoner with a compound fracture to his arm.
The people that carried out these sickening acts simply have no place in the British Army
Piers Morgan
Daily Mirror editor
Mirror statement in full
Iraq torture photos row widens
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said the authorities were not aware of other photos of prisoners being mistreated or of a culture of trading pictures.
"If people have got evidence of such activity, then they should bring it to the attention of the Army authorities. We won't stand for activity like that," he said.
The MoD spokesman was unable to confirm reports the regiment was given a dressing down in their Cyprus base by a senior officer.
The Mirror's editor Piers Morgan earlier said the alleged abuse had been "common knowledge among disgusted British servicemen in Basra for months".
Suspicion
An investigation has already begun into the claims, also carried in the Mirror, that British troops assaulted the prisoner pictured in the paper, before throwing him from a lorry.
BBC defence correspondent Paul Adams said sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment were suspicious about the authenticity of the photographs questioning whether the rifle, hats and truck pictured matched those issued to men in Iraq.
The images have already been seen in the Middle East
And they asked why there appeared to be no sign of sweat, dirt or injuries on the body of the alleged victim.
Colonel Bob Stewart, who commanded British forces in the Balkans, told BBC News Online he could not say whether the photos were genuine.
Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told BBC One's Breakfast with Frost programme: "There is a very high-level investigation taking place. The allegations are terrible."
Army spokesman Roger Goodwin, on behalf of the regiment, said: "Whether the soldiers involved in the alleged atrocities were members of the QLR needs to be established.
"There is no place in our regiment for individuals capable of such appalling and sickening behaviour."
It's starting to fall apart in my eyes. The two men who handed the mirror the pictures started off saying it was a rogue element yet now they say that soldiers swapped photos. Sureley to swap photos the abuse would have to be wide spread and many must be taking these pictures. I think they're just trying to keep it in the papers now.
May, glad to see you back, Dragon finally got to you?
If only I could reach into my screen and grab that *^&%*^!
Don't worry, I'll calm down by tomorrow
May, glad to see you back, Dragon finally got to you?
If only I could reach into my screen and grab that *^&%*^! Don't worry, I'll calm down by tomorrow
"This far and no further" - Britain, World War 1 & 2
aldoAldo wrote:It's starting to fall apart in my eyes. The two men who handed the mirror the pictures started off saying it was a rogue element yet now they say that soldiers swapped photos. Sureley to swap photos the abuse would have to be wide spread and many must be taking these pictures. I think they're just trying to keep it in the papers now.
May, glad to see you back, Dragon finally got to you?
Don't worry, I'll calm down by tomorrow
mail me at wotmay@hotmail.com ill explain a few things re that
better let me know who else i know u as too ;p
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Doc
- Guest
another point.....cleanest back of a 4 tonner Ive ever seen especially as its in the desert, not a trace of sand?
Agree, uniform looks dodgy, rifle looks like one of them fake BB guns.
Has he had a manicure (squaddie that is) oh ok then and the Iraqi?
Just looks staged and crapply done.
Tabloids one minute behind the lads then slagging them off
DONT BUY THE MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (OR THE SCUM (SUN)!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Agree, uniform looks dodgy, rifle looks like one of them fake BB guns.
Has he had a manicure (squaddie that is) oh ok then and the Iraqi?
Just looks staged and crapply done.
Tabloids one minute behind the lads then slagging them off
DONT BUY THE MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (OR THE SCUM (SUN)!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
The Mirror as never supported the Troops.
Read the Sun this morning and they are trying to get the point across that these are fakes. But I think that might have something to do with there hatred of The Mirror.
The Daily Mail makes a good effort in trying to proove these are fakes, I think the Mirror as gone too far this time. Piers Morgan should face charges over this.
Cav-Lad
Read the Sun this morning and they are trying to get the point across that these are fakes. But I think that might have something to do with there hatred of The Mirror.
The Daily Mail makes a good effort in trying to proove these are fakes, I think the Mirror as gone too far this time. Piers Morgan should face charges over this.
Cav-Lad
Last edited by Cav-Lad on Mon 03 May, 2004 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sticky Blue
- Member
- Posts: 3623
- Joined: Tue 18 Dec, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Portsmouth, UK
- Contact:
Doc,
What are you trying to say?
I am in the 'No respect or trust of the press' camp. They heard the 'never let the truth get in the way of a good dit' story and took the bugger to heart!
There are to many inconsistencies in this story for me. Cynic? Moi? Perhaps... just a bit
What are you trying to say?
Stop beating around the bush and make your pointdoc wrote:DONT BUY THE MIRROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (OR THE SCUM (SUN)!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I am in the 'No respect or trust of the press' camp. They heard the 'never let the truth get in the way of a good dit' story and took the bugger to heart!
There are to many inconsistencies in this story for me. Cynic? Moi? Perhaps... just a bit
Drums beating, colours flying and bayonets fixed...
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Dolly Grey just how do you know that is blood on the hood covering the prisoners head. The other thing to look for the watches or rings any thing that might identifies any soldier envolved, there are none to be seen, I wonder why?
What I would like to see happen now is the MOD take the Sun to court to obtain the details of the men that supplied these photo's, and let them name the people in open court so that action could be taken.
Until then I agree with Sticky Blue just don't buy the papers until this is sorted.
What I would like to see happen now is the MOD take the Sun to court to obtain the details of the men that supplied these photo's, and let them name the people in open court so that action could be taken.
Until then I agree with Sticky Blue just don't buy the papers until this is sorted.
While I totally agree with taking the sun to court I think taking the mirror to the docks might be a bit more usefull
Seriously though if these people really were trying to uncover the truth of some big rogue cover up thing they would be giving the MoD and MPs all the help they need instead of hiding behind the Mirror.
Seriously though if these people really were trying to uncover the truth of some big rogue cover up thing they would be giving the MoD and MPs all the help they need instead of hiding behind the Mirror.
"This far and no further" - Britain, World War 1 & 2
Ha! They've done a follow up to it. This stuff really is complete tat...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm ... _page.html
I won't post the whole article as it's quite long but here are a few chunks:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm ... _page.html
I won't post the whole article as it's quite long but here are a few chunks:
CLAIM: A rifle in the picture was too clean, with no scratches or marks.
REALITY: Soldier A: "We cleaned our rifles all the time. It could have been cleaned that afternoon."
CLAIM: The truck, the soldiers' uniforms and boots, and the Iraqi are too clean.
REALITY: Soldier A: "That's the way it was."
What do you know about surfing major, you're from god damn New Jersey
No sling
the blackest muzzle (and body)ever - constant cleaning soon gets rid of the black stuff especially on the flash eliminator as we all know - so there goes the counter to that one in the mirror.
hands that look manicured - no engrained dirt or scabby bits
no watch or white bit where a watch would be
his neckline is clean and not sweaty or grimey (no pongo taunts from the RM please!)
Ammo pouches undone
no sand in the truck
the flash used in the phot looks pro level
boots laced up too tigh and wrongly (although some tuse a hybrid system)
We know all the reasons why these are highly dubious. Now Morgan HAS to expose his sources. Channel 4 are reporting the claims of fakery as "Allegations" as opposed to the actual phots being the allegations. About as fair and balanced as Fox News.
I knew journo's were dodgey but this is too much. Its a load of bollcks and it makes my blood boil. Maybe there were instances of brutality, if there were then that is wrong and should be dealt with accordingly. This is no way to go about it.
the blackest muzzle (and body)ever - constant cleaning soon gets rid of the black stuff especially on the flash eliminator as we all know - so there goes the counter to that one in the mirror.
hands that look manicured - no engrained dirt or scabby bits
no watch or white bit where a watch would be
his neckline is clean and not sweaty or grimey (no pongo taunts from the RM please!)
Ammo pouches undone
no sand in the truck
the flash used in the phot looks pro level
boots laced up too tigh and wrongly (although some tuse a hybrid system)
We know all the reasons why these are highly dubious. Now Morgan HAS to expose his sources. Channel 4 are reporting the claims of fakery as "Allegations" as opposed to the actual phots being the allegations. About as fair and balanced as Fox News.
I knew journo's were dodgey but this is too much. Its a load of bollcks and it makes my blood boil. Maybe there were instances of brutality, if there were then that is wrong and should be dealt with accordingly. This is no way to go about it.
