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weighted squats

General discussions on joining & training in the Royal Marines.
Dave_1987
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weighted squats

Post by Dave_1987 »

Alright fellas,

Im finally running again after being
out of it for about 7-8months.

Did a 1.5mile run yesterday and came in
at 11mins(crap i know) but on the way there. (I reckon I can get my pjft done within the month right??)

Im looking to include some weighted squats to help get these run times down. Anyone got any tips on what kind of weight and reps would be most beneficial. Im around 5'8 and about 63-65kg if that makes any difference.

Cheers for any input guys.
RM Recruit Training 2nd March 09
degrees of passion
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Post by degrees of passion »

I'm coming back after a knee injury and am also getting back into my running.My advice would be to concentrate on high reps and circuits including bodyweight squats etc.I've just been getting into crossfit and if you go on their website,they have plenty of videos explaining the various exercises,it's great actually cos there's a few functional,full body exercises;see sumo deadlift high pull,thrusters,overhead squat,jumping squats etc.

Legs-wise for RM fitness I would say it's better to be lean,fit and a high level of muscular endurance rather than just max strength,so don't worry about adding huge weights to your squats,just concentrate on good form and plenty of reps and sets.

Personally I've only just discovered the potential in squats and never trained my lower body(I used to look like johnny bravo :D ),but I know that squats are such a difficult exercise to actually perfect(aswell as the many varying opinions on them),and even pros benefit from squat coaching.Im also not that flexible squat-wise,so find myself having to put my feet slightly wider apart and even point my toes out slightly in order to go down that little bit further(trying not to push with the balls of my feet).I'm taking it slow weight-wise anyway,and only do weighted squats on a smith machine at the minute cos im scared of pulling something and spoiling my training.

I think with the right sort of circuits and reps/sets/intensity,you only need your bodyweight to get a good workout from squats.
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'
lodge939
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Post by lodge939 »

Weighted squats won't make a bit of difference. Sprints and intervals will, though.
Brisks
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Post by Brisks »

Squats can help, if I remember when it comes to weight training you want to do 25-60 repetitions per set and about 4 sets to work on muscular endurance with short rests between sets and working at about 60% of what you can lift in one squat.

To be honest though if you want to get your run times down I would suggest just running, if you mix up sprint intervals with steady runs your time should go down. Plus squats can f@#k you up if you do them with bad form.
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Post by Brisks »

lodge939 wrote:Weighted squats won't make a bit of difference. Sprints and intervals will, though.
Where did you get that from? Of course they will make a differance.
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Post by lodge939 »

Brisks wrote:
lodge939 wrote:Weighted squats won't make a bit of difference. Sprints and intervals will, though.
Where did you get that from? Of course they will make a differance.
Running is just CV, what kind of noticeable difference will weighted squats make to your times?
degrees of passion
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Post by degrees of passion »

Weighted squats wont make much of a noticeable difference but plenty of bodyweight squats will,as its increasing the power and muscular endurace of your legs which will benefit you plenty when running:its like the improvement cyclists get when doing leg weightlifting exercise:they get more power to push up an incline and so they dont have to stand up on the pedals.Just cos ones weightlifitng and ones CV doesn't mean they're not related,squats is still better for running than no squats at all.
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'
Stokey_14
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Post by Stokey_14 »

lodge939 wrote:Weighted squats won't make a bit of difference. Sprints and intervals will, though.

So a large proportion of the famous runners and Olympic athletes that squat or use squats in various way do it for no reason at all?

Squatting depending on the rep range used can have plenty of advantages for runners... knee, ligament/tendon strength, endurance (low weight high rep) in the quadriceps ,hamstrings and to some degree calves, flexibility, core strength, posture, explosiveness (when using higher weights explosively for very few reps -making it more CNS dominant) and being a extremely good movement for posterior chain strengthening are but a few things to be gained from squatting, heavy explosive squatting (Olympic style) would also help recruit more type II muscle fibers (fast twitch muscle fibers)... this would in turn make you quicker off the line it would also help when making bursts of speed.

You can further categorize fast twitch muscle fiber into Type IIa and Type IIb but there’s no need in this case.

So very basically Squatting will indeed make a bit of difference improving running times (quite considerably in some cases) in all distances from 100M right the way up to endurance events.

Obviously not trying to agree here just trying to make a point...Sorry to be a pain :( :lol:

I'd also agree that running is the number one way to get better at running (no shock there) and intervals are one of the best ways but supplementary exercises should not be over looked when searching for better performance

The Nerd :P
Stokey

P.S.
Running is just CV, what kind of noticeable difference will weighted squats make to your times?
Running isn't solely a cardiovascular exercise(though that is one of the main points), things like hill sprints will in fact improve strength there’s no point in having a highly developed cardiovascular system if you don't have the muscle strength to get you up a hill during a race.
Dave_1987
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Post by Dave_1987 »

Im going to wait a while before doing interval and sprint training. Im pretty sure it says in the little green book wait at least 2 weeks before incorporating it into your training.

So im going to wait until Ive got a good base level of fitness - lets say a good solid 20-25min run, then after that start doing interval or sprint training once a week. In the meantime hopefully adding these squats to my training routine can be a big help in lowering my run time.

What sort of weight and how many reps+sets would be best for running?

Thanks for the replys guys
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Stokey_14
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Post by Stokey_14 »

Personally I’d say squats (depending on how they are done are just as intense as interval sprints, if you don't feel you are fit enough or have a low leave of GPP (general physical preparedness) then possibly stick to body weight squats and work you're way up to do more intensive exercises.

If you're looking for endurance (I should assume so) then low weight high reps are called for. If for some reason you had a particularly week posterior chain, legs or other body part which needed bring up then high weight low reps would be more suitable (but I very much doubt this is the case.)

I'm probably being over thought full about this and am looking at it from an athletes perspective not someone looking to join the Royal Marines... but just a few thoughts.

Stokey
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Post by LostandFound »

Try bodyweight Tabata squats:

20secs squats as fast as you can
10secs rest

Repeat non-stop for a total of 4 mins.

Your heart will be pounding, legs hanging out after this. Its good for power, endurance, and because its bodyweight you wont be putting yourself as at risk due to form. They're great for increasing leg strength and endurance.

NB make sure on your squats you go all the way down so your thighs are parallel to the floor and then back up again.
BENDSTRETCHBENDSTRETCHBENDSTRETCHBENDSTRETCHBENDSTRETCH!!!!!!!!
803troop
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Post by 803troop »

[quote="Brisks"]Squats can help, if I remember when it comes to weight training you want to do 25-60 repetitions per set and about 4 sets to work on muscular endurance with short rests between sets and working at about 60% of what you can lift in one squat.

To be honest though if you want to get your run times down I would suggest just running, if you mix up sprint intervals with steady runs your time should go down. Plus squats can f@#k you up if you do them with bad form.[/quote]

25- 60 reps?

Super freak!

LSD 2x week, and intervals 1x per week. When you fiter, do either 1x LSD & 2x Ints. or 2x each.


Here is an article.

TAKU'S INTERVAL TRAINING

"Taku" is the screen name for Liam Bauer on the www.mma.tv discussion forum. Liam has over 15 years of strength and conditioning experience to back up the training programs he devises for athletes under his supervision. He initially posted this program (in a rough draft) for those that wanted a good way to build up to what Liam refers to as a "30 gallon gas tank." That 30 gallon tank means that you'll be able to keep going hard at your chosen sport when everyone else has packed their bags and gone home.

The article "ENDURANCE TRAINING FOR COMBAT SPORT" was written by Liam for www.straightblastgym.com but he has given me permission to post it here as well. If you have any questions you can contact Liam at: strengthonline@yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________

When trying to assess your personal strength training and conditioning needs one must focus a critical eye on his or her own strengths and weaknesses. In this manner the time allotted to strength training and conditioning and all its components, can be utilized more efficiently. For example if flexibility never seems to hold you back but you feel like puking after one round of hard sparring, don’t waste a lot of time working on improving your side and front splits. Instead maintain your obviously adequate flexibility and focus more attention on endurance training (which happens to be the topic of this article).

There is so much myth, misconception and misunderstanding surrounding endurance training or "Cardio" for combat sports, it is a wonder anyone ever reaches their goals. I hope this article will help clear up some of the confusion and set you on the path towards more efficient and effective training. I’ve decided to keep this article "science-lite" (a third less terminology then your regular science article) so lets define some terms that will come up later. If you need clarification on things or more detail on a certain subject, feel free to contact me.

Aerobic: The break down of energy in the presence of oxygen. Associated with long duration, low intensity, activity.

Anaerobic: the breakdown of energy without the presence of oxygen. Associated with brief, intense, activity.

L.S.D: Long Slow Distance training, for example jogging for 30 minutes.

H.I.I.T.: High Intensity Interval Training, for example Sprinting as fast as possible resting briefly and repeating.

S.A.I.D.: principal = Specific Adaptations to Imposed Demands.

R.P.E.: A reference scale designed to provide exercisers with easily understood guidelines regarding exercise intensity.

There are three different systems in the body that are involved in the breakdown and production of energy:

The Phosphagen

Lactic Acid

Oxidative

These systems function on a continuum, no one system is ever totally responsible for all the energy needs of the body at one time. The more brief and intense the effort required the more the phosphagen and lactic acid or "Anaerobic" systems are used.

The S.A.I.D. principal states that the body will adapt specifically to the demands placed on it. If you want to improve your fitness for a certain activity it is best to develop conditioning programs that utilize the same energy systems as your chosen activity. Combat sports are primarily "Anaerobic" in nature. In combat sports one must acquire the ability to work at maximal and near maximal levels for short bursts, actively recover and then do it again. In boxing the athlete fights for two or three minutes and then gets to rest for one minute between rounds. The actual rounds however are made up of these burst recover intervals. At no time during a fight is the athlete truly resting. Even pure Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has this burst recover element, while a match is in progress the athletes never get a total rest. If you are fighting in NHB/Vale Tudo it doesn’t matter how long the rounds are, the basic requirements remain. If you are conditioning to fight, skip the "road-work" and do High Intensity Interval Training or "H.I.I.T." instead. While doing these H.I.I.T. workouts, be sure that you are bursting to maximum and near maximum levels. Hopefully it is starting to sink in that for combat sports, L.S.D. training is ineffective. Jogging or running at a steady pace continually for 20-45-60 minutes at a time is really a massive waste of valuable training and conditioning time. To maximize your efficiency while training "Cardio" for combat sports build your routine around high intensity interval training.

When designing your program it helps to have a way to measure intensity. We will use a simple yet effective method known as an R.P.E. or Rate of Perceived Exertion scale. This scale allows the exerciser to subjectively rate his/her feelings during exercise, taking into account personal fitness level, environmental conditions, and general fatigue levels. Perceived exertion ratings correlate highly with measured exercise heart rates and calculated oxygen consumption values. The R.P.E. scale has been found to be a valuable and reliable indicator in monitoring an individuals exercise tolerance and is often used by fitness professionals while conducting graded exercise tests. Here is an example of how to create your own personal R.P.E. scale. We’ll use the numbers ** 0-10 where 0 = nothing at all (the feeling of sitting at home watching TV) and 10 = Very, very hard (the feeling of running as fast as possible for 100-400 meters). You can actually use this R.P.E. scale as a way to measure both intensity and progress. If you are training on a machine* at resistance level 5 and you feel you are at an "8" on your personal R.P.E. scale, you know you have improved when your R.P.E. for the same exercise and resistance level has dropped to a "6" after several sessions. In the following program I will make suggestions for R.P.E. intensity levels to work towards and it will be up to you to match those levels of intensity to your current ability using your personal R.P.E. scale. The program consists of three progressive 4-week phases designed to build and then maintain a base level of "Anaerobic" endurance.

THE PROGRAM

Always begin each workout with a 5-minute warm-up at a level of 3-4 on your R.P.E. scale. Follow this with 5 minutes at a steady pace that is just starting to get hard by the end, level 5-6 on your R.P.E. scale. And then reduce the intensity and do 5 more minutes, back to level 3-4 on your R.P.E. scale. This 15 minutes remains the same throughout the first three phases of your H.I.I.T. protocol. After this 15 minute period proceed immediately to the high intensity intervals, which will be described below. During the intervals you should be pushing hard, striving for about a level 7-10 on your R.P.E. scale. Always finish your session with a 5-minute cool-down, another level 3-4 on the R.P.E. scale.

Phase 1:
Weeks 1 & 2: 4 X 90 seconds work + 90 seconds recovery.
Weeks 3 & 4: 5 X 60 seconds work + 60 seconds recovery.

Phase 2:
Weeks 5 & 6: 6 X 45 seconds work + 30 seconds recovery.
Weeks 7 & 8: 7 X 30 Seconds work + 20 seconds recovery.

Phase 3:
Weeks 9 & 10: 8 X 20 seconds work + 10 seconds recovery.
Weeks 11 & 12: 10 X 20 seconds work + 10 seconds recovery.

The first phase will lay the foundation for the following phases. Obviously you can not sprint for 90 seconds at the same pace you can keep up for a shorter duration. Your job is to go as hard as you can for the given time specified. During recovery periods you may go as slow as you wish but DO NOT STOP MOVING! Active recovery is always better than passive recovery and will help remove the buy-products of your anaerobic overload more effectively. Once you reach phase 3, you can remain there in maintenance mode. Avoid boredom and stale training by changing machines* every 2-3 weeks as well as continually striving to train at higher resistance levels on each machine. * If you feel you are not fully recovering be sure to add extra rest days where needed. These sessions should be done 2-5 times a week, experiment to find what works best for you. Do your best to get in at least two sessions per week. If you are diligent you should start noticing an improvement right away. By the time you finish phase three you should be on your way to having a 30-gallon gas tank.

*For the H.I.I.T. portion of your training I recommend the following machines in order of my preference:
1) Versa Climber.
2) Air Dyne Bike.
3) Elliptical walker with arm attachments.
4) Rowing ergometer.
5) Cross country Ski simulator.

These machines have been selected because they work the entire body as a unit rather then just the legs alone. Although the machines mentioned are my favorites, anything will work, rope skipping, running, biking, stair-climbing etc. If you do choose running or rope skipping I recommend cross training with one of the above recommended machines to reduce the potential for overuse injuries due to the inherent impact on the joints from these activities.

** Example of an R.P.E. scale with values from 0-10:
0 = Nothing at all
1 = Very easy
2 = Easy
3 = Moderate
4 = Somewhat hard
5 = Hard
6
7 = Very hard
8
9
10 = Very, very hard
GGHT
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Post by GGHT »

If squats didn't help sprinting then 100m runners wouldn't do them. They do.

For the PRMC as long as your CV endurance was in check they would benefit you. That assault course drains your legs and a bit of plyometrics would help definatley.
billybud
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Post by billybud »

It's true that sprinters do a hell of a lot of weights - they need big explosive muscles that work for 10 seconds.
Middle distance runners ( 800/1500)might do a few light weights to keep their form and arms pumping in the last sprint.
Long distance runners (5,000/10,000) don't do weights - have you seen a fit one stripped down to his vest?
1.5 miles is definitely not a sprint, might feel like it!, it's somewhere between middle and long distance. Your Marines training will probably suit a marathon man more than a sprinter. I would say you need a training regime of plenty of long slow runs mixed in with interval & fartlek running when your body can cope with the increased load, as somebody said earlier this will give you plenty of leg strength and work your aerobic system as well.
Example: Dwayne Chambers our best sprinter would last about 400m on your trial run, then he'd be seriously hurting. He has little endurance - not surprising he wasn't able to finish a full game of Rugby League.
GGHT
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Post by GGHT »

billybud have you done PRMC or Recruit training or just theorising on something you have never experienced?
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