The Sixteen by John Urwin

rabby · Post by **rabby** » Tue 22 Jul, 2003 10:03 am

This book will blow your mind, I sh*t you not. It's all about John's experience of an extremely covert fighting fighting group in WWII known as "The Sixteen". The methods these guys used to carry out their operations is nothing short of incredible. They use a fighting technique known as "The Machine". It is a series of robotic-like movements that simply cannot be stopped, no matter how good a fighter you are in any other discipline. The fact that these, and other technique's used by The Sixteen in WWII are not used today (and I'm pretty sure they aren't because if they were there would be no need for the SAS and Commandos), is depressing to say the least, we had the best fighting men in the world, and it looks as if their training has been wasted.

John has a website, telling a little taster of what The Machine can do, he also trains bodyguards and the llike using this technique, and there is no way anyone would mess with them and get away with it.

http://www.johnurwin.co.uk/index.html

FIRE · Post by **FIRE** » Fri 25 Jul, 2003 9:01 pm

I readed a Dutch translation of the book last week. The writer tells about his life in a secret special forces group "The Sixteen" in de 50s (not WW2!!!). I am not totally convinced that this story is true.
For example:
- Why were the other 3 members of his group fulltime member of the "The Sixteen" and John Urwin/Geordie not?
- He tells about "The Machine" but why didn't they do (machine) gun training.

The aspect that dissapointed me was that every mission is so vague. For example who did they kill in Libanon. Off course the reason is that members of "The Sixteen" only had to kill that guy on the photo and also didn't knew who it was. I understand this but it made me so curious...

I give this book 3 (out of 5) stars.

rabby · Post by **rabby** » Fri 25 Jul, 2003 9:31 pm

Yeah it was the 50's, SORRY!

1) John said in the book that he not a full time member because he was not a full time member of the Army. If he wanted to become a full memeber he would have to sign on. By the time it came to it and the oppertunity to sign on was available it was inconvenient and it could not be worked around the NI or something wierd like that.

2)They didn't do machine gun training for obvious reasons, 1: machine guns cannot be easily concealed and carried when performing the tasks they had to do. 2: Machine gun's make a hell of a lot of noise, both of these points showing that they are certainly not covert. 3: Machine guns were simply not needed. What task could a machine gun do that they themselves with their training not do?

If you look at his website that I gave above, John has set up a training centre based on "The Machine". So some of it MUST be true if he is teaching it nowadays. :fadein:

FIRE · Post by **FIRE** » Sat 26 Jul, 2003 3:51 pm

He's telling about a mission in which they killed several high ranking Egyptian officers. In this mission they used guns. Off course the "machine" was in most cases the best solution.

I must say that his website gives me more reason to believe his story.

kev401 · Post by **kev401** » Sat 06 Sep, 2003 3:16 pm

Thanks for the open minded comments on Johns book and respect for the natural caution in believing it fully. I have known John for nearly twenty years and will vouch for the authenticity of his knowledge and skills. I would like to answer a couple of the questions posted. The machine is a method of combat that is as far as Iam aware unique to this group and it can and was used as a method for instinctive shooting of any weapon(ref post on use of machine guns) The vaugeness surrounding the missions was intentional and honest as they were given only enough information to target their objective. The web site for John's book explains a little more on the subject and he can be contacted through it. It is his hope that through the web site and book his skills may attract attention of suitable agencies and that he may get the opportunity to pass on that which at present is remaining untapped.

Kev

always go commando · Post by **always go commando** » Sat 06 Sep, 2003 4:02 pm

Sounds like a cut down back to basics version of aikido to me, but what would I know.
A few thins don't add up, e.g. choosing to divulge his past after 30 years of secrecy. A military regiment called 'the sixteen' sounds way to cool to be true.
and then there is the opening paragraph

The group, known as 'The Sixteen', was an elite covert unit who, in the late 1950's, used the Middle East as an operational training ground. The lack of official evidence concerning their existence is due to the way the highly covert group was designed and operated, making it extremely difficult for anyone to provide proof to substantiate their existence. However, having researched 1950's Anglo-American covert activities in the Middle East, I discovered independent evidence via the Internet and other publications concerning Soviet spies and moles in British Intelligence, which corroborates and explains the need for the way The Sixteen operated

seems to say, no proof will ever been given so believe us

joe · Post by **joe** » Sat 06 Sep, 2003 5:33 pm

I have to say that I'm reminded of the story regarding Paul Bruce and his book "Nemesis File" ....

kev401 · Post by **kev401** » Sat 06 Sep, 2003 5:48 pm

The proof is there but not in the form of documents, pictures etc. If you follow the book and study the methods they used ask yourself where have you seen or read anything similar. If these methods were known to other SF units then it would have been common knowledge by now. So he has either made it all up, which to invent them any way would still be worthwhile or he was in fact in the sixteen. In my previous post I said I have known John for many years and this gives me the advantage of over time seeing it all first hand. To me this where the proof lies, he is the proof. Yes he has remained silent for over thirty years and would have kept that way without pressure from myself and others to make his story known. He also was spured into writing the book through frustration by books like Bravo 2 zero and their subsequent exposure as fiction. The forward to the book gives ample explanation as to why little evidence remains about them and why secrecy was paramount. With all their secrecy I often wondered why they allowed anyone to leave alive. His answer is that they knew know one would believe him anyway so with respect we expect you to be the same. By the way it is nothing like aikido.

Kev

rabby · Post by **rabby** » Sun 07 Sep, 2003 5:40 pm

I believed his book, a lot of it has to be true if he is teaching some of the skills today at his unarmed combat school. It is rediculous that somebody in the high ranks of military or government hasn't contacted him about the book, surely the likes of Saddam could have been stopped without all the waste of life, money and effort that has taken so far only to make the bastard harder to get.

I contacted John a wee while ago about the lateral thinking tests (can't remember what they were called) about how they could be done (the ones he didn't give the answers to in the book

) and the things he can do with a piece of string is amazing!!

Kev, the people that go to the UCTC, are they just ordinary blokes (or blokesses

) or are they like bodyguards, mercenaries etc? Just curious.

kev401 · Post by **kev401** » Sun 07 Sep, 2003 5:46 pm

Hi Rabby
Its only a small club with a handfull of guy's training. In the past we have had all types come to train, but at present we are just your run of the mill types. As I've said in previous posts it is hard to believe that we had such a group, even I find it hard to comprehend. I cannot prove the existance of the Sixteen but I can say that what he teaches goes beyond any other training I have had since I first started to train in combat arts in 1975.
Kev

Oakers · Post by **Oakers** » Tue 09 Sep, 2003 12:55 pm

Mmmm!?

always go commando · Post by **always go commando** » Wed 10 Sep, 2003 12:34 am

does oakers hmmmm! mean this one of those things were all going to have to accept as both existing and not existing like a unicorn

I have never seen one but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.

would it be possible fopr a group like the sixteen to exist today, its a nice thought isn't it. I also like to think the UK government has a nice stash of really big missiles that there not supposed to have (like every other country in the world)

kev401 · Post by **kev401** » Wed 10 Sep, 2003 7:11 pm

They probably do not exist now. The reason I think this is, is by looking at the obvious targets the group would have had since the fifties and the fact they have been left untouched.

kev401 · Post by **kev401** » Sat 28 Feb, 2004 2:07 pm

I've just revisited these posts and thought I would let you know that I offered to set up a meet with John and 'Always go commando' as he lives very close to me. I did this on his private mail and as yet I have not heard anything, but the offer is still there. It may be that some other contributers or visitors may wish to follow up this controversial book and author. The website with contact details are www.johnurwin.co.uk
Kev

always go commando · Post by **always go commando** » Thu 15 Apr, 2004 7:15 pm

sorry mate just not a fan of meeting possible former killers i met over the internet. My mothers taught me far to well.

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