Iraqi Murderers

[El Prez]

Posted on behalf of Ben Chug, correction by Mod to title; deemed unsuitable.

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BenChug
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Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Canada
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 8:28 am Post subject: Iraqi F***er's

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In Fallujah the bodies of 4 US contractors were dragged through the streets, pretty much Somalia style. To me this is one of the ultimate disrespects you can do to someone who is already dead. It is no different from shooting a man once you have him beaten down.

To quote a SS General in charge of German forces involved in the fighting surrounding Market Garden in WW2 Quote:
Crush Arnheim.

I say crush Fallujah, they make an example out of 4 dead americans we make a example out of the city that supports them.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/31/wo ... acks040331
Quote:
Four U.S. civilian contractors were killed in Fallujah when gunmen attacked two four-wheel-drive vehicles being driven along a main road.

The ambush quickly turned into a scene of mob violence when the bodies were taken from the burning vehicles and dragged through the streets.

Television news cameras captured pictures of a man beating one of the bodies with a metal pole, a corpse being dragged behind a car, and bodies hanging from a bridge. Some of the bodies were dismembered


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Cronkilla
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Joined: 28 Feb 2002
Posts: 694
Location: UK
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:45 am Post subject:

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Disgusting..............

No dought the anti-war lot will some how sway it towards being the americans fault. They will simply remark saying people like these scum are "few and far between", its this scum that forces were sent to get rid off. How anyone can do this to another person is baffling, i hope they catch the buggers and treat them the same. Then of course some sad hippy from behind a desk with have a giant rant anout how brutal it was and how the its a 'war crime', hyprocrits.

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Sully
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 716
Location: Chatham
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:37 am Post subject:

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I agree it was disgusting and many moons ago I was friends with someone who was at Mogadishu that day.

However.....quoting an SS general with approval and advocating the murder of stacks of civvies who probably have no sympathy with the animals who did this is going a bit far. Does that make me a sad hippy

Rash actions now by politicians and the hierarchy will only make things worse for the lads who are out there and have to face the consequences if more people are pushed into the arms of the extremists.

Also, I object to the title of this post - are you suggesting that all Iraqi's are f***ers or that there are some Iraqi's who are f***ers? If the latter I think the title should be changed.
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[El Prez]

Ben, I agree with your absolute disgust of the actions taken in Iraq, however your title to the original post was probably written in a red mist.

[Frank S.]

I am surprised something like this didn't happen sooner. Maybe if it did, it was not reported.
Someone better versed in Islamic religion and customs may enlighten me as to the ways muslims handle the dead, I suspect it is vastly different from what this atrocity in Fallujah would lead us to believe.

[Guest]

An evil and despicable act, who on earth is going to be able to monitor the situation in and around Fallujah in June when the Iraqi Assembly is in charge. Did not the same thing happen in Basrah area some time back with two British Lads?

I also recall when the Italians were defeated in N Africa early 1940's that dead Italians were dug up out of their graves and drawn through the streets of Tobruk, what an evil bunch of people, I guess it is the inbuilt hatred of some wanting revenge.

There must be a good deal of this type of hatred in all parts of the world.

[Guest]

I switched over to the Abu Dhabi channel on Sky last night and they were showing it in all its glory, pretty horrific, especially the kids jumping up and down in glee. I dont think religions got anything to do with it, as far as im aware mutilation of the dead is forbidden in islam, that mob was just motivated by blind hate. Also levelling Fallujha like some people are suggesting isnt going to help either. On Fox News last night it was all "lets go kick some ass" and "shoot anyone on sight" "declare martial law" etc. I'll say it again the war was a mistake, the only way these barbarians can be held in check is by a strongman like Saddam, thats the unpalatable truth. All this democracy hoohah is pie-in-the-sky.

[Lucent]

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplica ... aID=112837


I found this article today and it is really revealing. Islamic law, the Koraan and Shariah Law forbids mutilation, torture and murder by fire.

Some quote the Koraan to say that reciprocation upon an enemy /is/
allowed. Remember that the US Army shot 16 or 17 people in
Fallujah when they lost control of a street mob, so they have obviously just been waiting for a chance like this. (Whether those soldiers were right to open fire in self-defense is unfortunately irrelevant. Its the impression and perception and the chinese whispers post factum and what people want to believe that matters. We have seen the same elsewhere.)

However, as you will see in the article, they go on to say, quote -

"In fact, the principle of reciprocity has well-established rules in Shari`ah, whereby Muslims are warned from embarking on such inhumane attitudes. For instance, in case the enemy mutilates the dead bodies of Muslims, the Muslim army is not permitted to act in the same manner."
-Sheikh `Ikrimah Sabri, The Mufti of Al-Quds (Jerusalem) & Khatib of al-Aqsa Mosque.

Interestingly, the gist is not all that different from the bible - in the Old Testament they talk of an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, but the New Testament goes on to lay down the tenet of mercy and forgiveness.

So it really seems that the perpetrators were simply following their own sick idea of revenge and bloodlust, ignorant of their own laws and Islamic teaching. Animals would not do as they did. Living in Saddam's Iraq means they have missed the veneer of humanity, conscience and mercy that is present in lawful and humane societies; it will take a long time for this to disappear.
Whats worrying is, the animalistic traits are being passed onto the young. According to the reports, ten-year olds and upwards were as active in the mob as the men. The hate is not innate in them - its the parents and men indoctrinating them.

T

I am surprised something like this didn't happen sooner. Maybe if it did, it was not reported.
Someone better versed in Islamic religion and customs may enlighten me as to the ways muslims handle the dead, I suspect it is vastly different from what this atrocity in Fallujah would lead us to believe.

[Frank S.]

Actually, I'm guessing there's a purpose there. Someone mentioned Somalia. Less than a year later in Rwanda, 10 Belgian paratroopers were beaten, shot and mutilated.
They may be looking to:
1 - horrify and disgust the West in hopes of having them pull out their troops (I doubt it)
2 - cause massive retaliation on the Iraqi population by the US, which would fan the flames even more.

Or maybe it was a spontaneous frenzy.

[Tab]

Well much the same thing happened in Northern Ireland, it is mob rule at it's worst.

[Cobalt]

Seems more like collective anger aimed at the Americans. The people are seriously p****d off. Iraq has become an outlaw nation, and has lost the basic commodities that all were used to. The population are sick of it.

[Guest]

I see the BBC are reporting that Fallujah is like a ghost town with no US Soldiers on the streets, yet Paul Bremer the US/Coalition Administrator has stated these perpetrators will be brought to book. The local Arabs are saying the Americans are not welcome, I can see a 'High Noon' situation arising here with a big shoot out occuring.

Although we had trouble in Basrah yesterday and one Squaddie looked as if he had his rifle taken from him, order was restored fairly quickly, I wonder if its softly softly attitude by withdrawing saved the day there.

As far as the 6 Redcap Policeman that were murdered it appears that the Daily Mail are saying that the MoD are about to blame the MP's for failing to have the right equipment, I hope this story is untrue for the sake of the families, my God how they must have suffered.

[BenChug]

However.....quoting an SS general with approval and advocating the murder of stacks of civvies who probably have no sympathy with the animals who did this is going a bit far. Does that make me a sad hippy

Just a point on that the SS commander in this case wasn't a death camp chief. He was a soldier with political ideals. The title being 'iraqi f***ers"
was meant to be directed at the mob involved not the nation in general.

It seems to me that the only way to truly restore order is to break Iraq into 3 main countries, Sunnis, the other groups of muslims there although at the moment I can't remeber the title (Shi'ites or something?) and Kurds.
Although to my understanding if the kurds are to have a country Turkey will invade it in order to prevent their own kurds from joining with a 'Kurdistan' and breaking up Turkey.

This is opinion is based upon the fact that for the most part such tactics have worked in the former Jugoslavia (with peacekeepers of course.) And the terrorist attacks have now shifted more away from the occupying powers and towards the population in an attempt to cause civil war. The leader of one of the main terrorist cells in Iraq has said he won't attack Iraq if it becomes a democracy, however he seems to have his heart set on making his religous group the top dog. Break them so they have no reason to fight anymore. Of course this will be hard to do as many major areas are mixed ethnicity.

Good luck to Bush, Bremer and the Kerry (should he become prez) at sorting this mess out.

But no one deserves to have what happened to those Americans happen to them. Maybe a Hitler or aStalin but thats about it, not someone who is just doing a job especially people who are there such as these lads trying to restore the basic services to millions of people.

[Sully]

Agreed Ben. My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the victims of this attrocity.

[Guest]

Unfortunately Britain became involved in boundary changes in Iraq in the 1920's after the Ottoman Empire became defunct, that is why there are a lot of straight lines regarding boundaries on maps in that part of the world.

Who would determine where the new boundaries would be, the UN? They can hardly agree between themselves, Cyprus currently comes to mind, and I do hope that a settlement is agreed there.

Where would you place the Marsh Arabs? Where would the other displaced minorities be located, I don't think anyone thought this problem through before invading/liberating Iraq, the political strategy now is in somewhat disarray but when things settle down a tad perhaps the Mullahs will want control of the whole country and have it annexed by Iran.

[Lucent]

In that regard, the larger and more unified Iraq is, the better. Otherwise
if you splinter or go for a federal model the Shi'a part might want to
unify with Iran which might shift the power of balance in the region.
As things stood under Saddam, each country acted as an equally sized counterpoint to the other.

...perhaps the Mullahs will want control of the whole country and have it annexed by Iran.