WITHER THE MARINES

[COMBAT WOMBAT]

Again, i have asked this question before but nobody seemed interested so here i go again: It seems to me that the main thing distiguishing marines from an infantry unit is the standard of fitness, but what else do the marines do that gives them the right to call themselves a higher class of infantry? Are there closer bonds between men, are there as many fights, higher degree of professionalism or actual methods and techniques which are different?
Further more, i know this is daft since i have next to no experience in the forces but when i see pics of marines on T.V. i was kind of shocked to see what looked to me to be slack drills: ie. men not doing their back of their necks when camming up, when seeing patrols on T.V. every marine with his head down looking at the ground, sometimes marines on patrol without holding weapons in the 'alert/ready' position.
I'm not trying to slag off the marines in any way, but i think you can all understand my confusement when i'm told they are britain's best infantry but they seem to me to make basic basic mistakes that i learned not to make when i was in the cadets.

[voodoo sprout]

To be honest I can't answer the question directly, as while they are commando with all the implications that entails, the paras are not yet they hold similar regard. But about the slack drills thing, that might be against the rule book, but these things are comparitive; for example it might look bad having your weapon slung, but of the next bloke has his in his bergen then you're still the better of the two; and here it could well be that other troops simply make even more basic mistakes or whatever. That's ignoring the individual variations between people and sub-units and so on.

Besides, the air cadets are Britians best trained infantry, but they're so good the TV cameras never see them .

[lew]

Having the rifle in the "ready position'' may come across as aggressive, I thought this was why British troops weren’t wearing domes or body armour, to give off a more humane feeling towards the Iraqi people...


lew

[dan]

We are taught not to have our rifles in the 'alert' position when patrolling actually as it will wreck your arms in about 5 minutes and creates a tunnel vision by peering through the sites on the rifle. SOP is to walk with the rifle cradled at about waist height, which can be flicked up in a fraction of a second should contact occur and gives a broader field of vision.

[bongo]

The brass decided some time ago that non agressive patrolling and stance was the way forward in peace keeping ops
(obviously GW11 wasn't a peace keeping job to start with)
They went as far as having your weapon down by your side held with only one hand in Kosovo (but still attached by sling)

This feels very unatural to a bootneck and takes a while to actually relax
just doesn't seem right
Seems to be less aggressive but ask the Fusilier (not sure which budgie batttalion) in Kos who rather embarassingly had his personal weapon plucked from his non agressive arm and pinched

Also I think by the time the camera show up threat levels are generally right down anyways! I wasn't in Iraq maybe some one has some journo dits to spi and maybe set me right


bongo

[hedgie_rm]

What might seem to you like unprofessionalism, is actuallly a Royal Marine reading the tactical situation. Something a Pongo infantryman won't and can't do. I know a bit about it. I was a Pongo for a bit, before i saw the light!

[Artist]

I'm getting brassed of with this nitpicking from people who have never been in the Marines.

Do the Marine Commando course, (not AACC) get a Green Lid, and then gob off about tactics, weapons, how to wipe yer arse etc, etc, otherwise just keep it stum!

Artist

[COMBAT WOMBAT]

up your's artist, i wasn't slagging them off, it just seemed really odd to me and i felt i should raise it instead of continually wondering about it.

[Twenty One]

Combat Wombat,When you are referring to Marines do you mean American or Royal Marines.

From what I have observed on the "TV" news channels, the Royal Marines are very professional looking when they are on the ground,patrolling with their weapons at the ready, being alert at all times,communicating with the locals when necessary.

As for the American Marines, weapons seem to be at the ready, some seem to be a bit knackered and tired looking,travelling in SOFT skinned vehicles to close together,especially in Baghdad where they are constantly being sniped at. The RPG is a very effective weapon especially on soft skinned vehicles when the opportunity arises eg two vehicles close together.The tactic of the terrorist is to use the people as their eyes and ears in order to carry out an attack on the coalition forces,and some of them get involved with the actual attack.The lesson to be learned is don't become predictable by constantly patrolling the same area at the same time.This was a valuable lesson learned in NI by the British Forces,the terrorist is looking regularity in order to carryout his attack.

[barryc]

Moving away from the supposedly professional or not theme, but still on the thread CW also asked about other aspects.

I believe that the relationship between any servicemen ( I can't speak for the women not having been one) is a close one that probably transcends those of civvy street. Much of the day to day banter etc. may be like that found on a building site or similar but the service life is a 24/7 existence, not just a job, but a life. I suppose friendships on oil rigs may come close (any comment on that NST?) as they are 24/7 for some of the time and, as with the forces, your well being depends on each other. The main difference is the fact that war means deliberately going into harm's way and doing it together; that develops a bond.

Is the bond stronger in the RM than in other forces?, frankly, I don't know, but just consider this forum. Where does the bond seem to be the strongest, is it on the Navy, Army, RM, RAF or Para Regt boards?. To me it seems obvious but I am RM and feel a kinship with the other RM nutcases. Do other contributors feel a strong bond with, say other Rock Apes, fellow matelots or whatever?

I have met very few of the Bootnecks on this forum as far as I know, but I know that we would get on together. The green lid, and all that it means to earn it does give us a head's start, in mutual respect and trust. In short, yes I think the Marines are different, whether the Corps attracts a certain type or creates them I don't know. I do know that even when serving I could see, from the `outside as a sigs', just how good the riflemen were, how able were the HW fellas and all the other SQs. I like to think they might have thought the same about Sigs, but somehow I doubt it, you miserable bunch of Ba**ards.


Barry

[barryc]

Sorry, as a postscript to my last. I apologise to Sticky Blue for leaving out the buglers and bandies. True they don't do the course to earn the green, and retain the Royal Marine Blue beret. They do however earn the respect of every Royal by the very quality of what they do, in my mind they reflect the pride that we all feel in our Corps. I always quite enjoyed the occasional pomp bit when we could dress in our finery and have the bandies tell the world just how good we were. I still go to the Mountbatten Festival each year, and will for as long as I can get tickets, And still swell with pride when `our' band shows everyone just how good they are.


Barry

[Artist]

Combat Wombat

Grow up you silly little boy. Up me? I rather think not. There are blokes on this forum who joined up did there time and started a second career before you were born.

I'm fed up reading what school boys think is pertinent to this forum. Get a life!

Artist

[bongo]

CTC makes Marines but there has to be that spark from the individual.
Some times it comes from a family connection, dad was in, mum got nailed by one down the street.
But I think alot of it comes from guys who "want to be" living in a plymouth, arbroath, taunton,barnstaple, poole etc and seeing groups of booties F*****G the corps and going ashore!!

You can tell royal a mile off ashore not because they all wear KSB's jeans and T shirt. They don't (except hedgie, style vortex)

A bit self assured, confident, having a laugh, not being a complete bunch of nobbers, a close looking group...... But each individual can function on his own without the group.

Oh yeh suave, sophisticated and essence!!!!!! (GEN!)
Chuck in all the 200 ways to kill reet deet deets
and you are looking at the formula for what every young fella wants to be!!

OH the media, what can I say? they just turn up and film royal doing the job and being on the job alot means alot of media coverage.

Which I suppose exposes a lot of nippers to the corps, who just fancy it and have no real urge\spark other than to be what the media rightly calls the best.

Hopefully weeded out at prmc, the rest continue to ctc and come out the other end bootnecks.........................................?
No marines, the standard basic building block

A unit, old sweats leaning on/leading by example, living and working together 24/7 in the sh1t, good times and bad times,

makes a bootneck.

To quote a corps pissed monster from Bristol (forced to put chit in due to chicken shit stuff)

" won't miss the corps but i'll f*****g miss the fellas"

Thats what its all about.

[Artist]

Bongo

Nail on the head! Once a Marine always Marine!

When I first started using this forum it was great. Now.... Am getting brassed of with kids mouthing off about our Corp.

Am at this time Pi**ed off big time. Certain friends are having a bad time. I'm having a bad time! The old and bold are seen less and less. If it carries on like this....Endex as far as I am concerned.

Any school kid who tells me "UP YOURS" must be on drugs Because they would not dare say it to my face. I served 18 years. (left due to bits being BLR) I have been in the Big wide world 13 years. But still miss me mates and the things we used to do. (civvies just do not believe me when I tell them what went on) You must have had the same happen to you.

That there Green Lid makes us "different" In fact a Band of Brothers. the other Corp motto "Help Your Oppo" has always worked for me. I would help any Bootneck if I could. Had me say ENDEX.

Artist

[harry hackedoff]

Combat Wombat.
Wind yer neck in.