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The Rwandan Genocide

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JoJo82
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The Rwandan Genocide

Post by JoJo82 »

I'm not one to be big on history until something grabs my attention. To be honest it all started a few weeks ago after watching 'Hotel Rwanda' then following with a film called 'When April comes'.

Being that I was not there and that I was in School, I can remember snit bits of this over the news, Hutu's were trying to wipe out the Tutsi's, by doing so they were targeting adults, then Hutu's who worked along side Tutsis, those who were married to Tutsi's and those that the Hutu's thought would cross sides, after this they targeted the children to clean out the blood line.

From what I gather the United states, France and Belguim refused to help in the early days. Knowing what we do now, do you think they would have acted sooner, seeing that 800,00 or so were estimated to be killed.

But then again, if it wasn't for the 'voice' over the Radio generating hatred towards overs and giving out actions, would it have grown to that size? Being that the DJ hadn't killed or abused by hand, what he did by voice, would you rate it as just as bad?

I know the UN are there as a basic 'keeping the peace' and they held a 'no fire' rule, have the UN gained any further knowledge as to how they should react if something of this extent was to present it's self again?

Are we (UK), able to supply a peace force large enough to act upon something this size or would we still need the help of the US or other UN countries?

This is not meant as an argument, just thought it would make a good discussion..............open floor :wink:
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Post by Paratrooper01 »

I for one would have no problem with going to a place like that and brassing up anyone who was carrying out these atrocities.

I think the British Government would only get involved for example like Sierra Leone where British troops were kidnapped. After all, its a damn shame that these massacres occur but as far as the Government is concerned, its not their problem.
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Post by AJtothemax »

Exactly - as far as they're concerned its not our problem because it doesn't affect our interests. Throughout history the west has mainly fought to defend that.
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Post by Paratrooper01 »

Perhaps if Africa had crude oil seeping from its ground it would be a different matter of "interests". :roll:
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Post by harry hackedoff »

My point exactly in comparing Mugabe to Sadders on occasions to numerous to mention. 8)
Mugabe is a tin pot dictator, whereas Sadders was a tinpot dictator with oil :roll:
And I can`t tell me Hutu from me Tutsie even when I`m sober :o
I`m off to me pit now, to dream about John Prescot :wink:
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Post by Tab »

What ever turns you on Harry
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Post by Frank S. »

http://www.rwanda-info.net/index.php?op ... &Itemid=83

Rwanda leader's murder still awaits UN probe
President's 1994 killing triggered African genocide
Steven Edwards, National PostPublished
Monday, November 27, 2006



The speed with which the United Nations has moved to investigate the recent political assassinations in Lebanon is in startling contrast with its lethargy over a 1994 missile attack that killed two African presidents. While experts worry Lebanon could erupt in violence that tears the Middle East apart, the murder of Juvenal Habyarimana, the Rwandan President, on April 6, 1994, sparked three months of slaughter now known as the Rwandan genocide. More than 800,000 people died after unknown assailants blew up Mr. Habyarimana's plane, which was carrying Cyprien Ntaryamira, the Burundian President, officials from both countries and three French crew.

Startlingly, there has been no UN probe. Now, a French judge acting for the French victims' families has gone ahead with his own investigation and the fallout has sparked a major row between France and the current Rwandan government. Rwanda recalled its ambassador after Jean-Louis Bruguiere, France's leading anti-terrorist judge, signed arrest warrants for nine aides of Paul Kagame, the Rwandan President. The judge has also accused Mr. Kagame of ordering Mr. Habyarimana's death, but as a sitting president, he is immune from prosecution. The Bruguiere investigation is based in part on documents first uncovered by the National Post in 2000. While Mr. Kagame denies any involvement in the assassination, the pressure for an international investigation is only likely to increase from here.


Marie-Rose Habyarimana, one of Mr. Habyarimana's eight children, said from her current home in Ottawa she plans to renew a plea she made on the 12th anniversary of the genocide for Prime Minister Stephen Harper to support demands for an international probe. "The arrest warrants offer us a bit of hope for justice, and that this time the UN will do its job," she said. "How is it that they can start probes into the murders in Lebanon in record time, and still be doing nothing to find out who killed my father and the others in the plane almost 13 years ago?"


The Post's investigation stemmed from a desire to plumb a mystery riddled with Canadian connections.

Retired Canadian General Romeo Dallaire, head of the ill-fated UN peacekeeping mission, was in Rwanda during the genocide, while Louise Arbour, former justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, later became the UN's chief prosecutor for Rwandan war crimes. In the documents obtained by the Post, former UN investigator Michael Hourigan says Ms. Arbour rejected a full-scale UN investigation when he met her in 1997 to present new information suggesting elements of Mr. Kagame's rebel Rwandan Patriotic Army (RPA) downed the plane. The nine people now targeted by Mr. Bruguiere include one named in an "internal memorandum" given to Ms. Arbour at that meeting. The 1997 memorandum says the head of a special operations unit that allegedly brought down the plane reported directly to Faustin Nyamwasa-Kayumba, head of the RPA's intelligence network. Mr. Nyamwasa-Kayumba is now Mr. Kagame's ambassador to India.


Ms. Arbour, today the UN Human Rights Commissioner, has never commented publicly on what transpired at the 1997 meeting. One of her former senior prosecutors speculated she was reflecting UN concern Mr. Kagame would react to an investigation by refusing to cooperate with the war crimes tribunal.

Indeed, Mr. Kagame had been in effective control since his mainly Tutsi army put an end to the extremist-Hutu slaughter of Rwanda's Tutsi minority and moderate Hutus in July, 1994. Mr. Bruguiere has cited Mr. Hourigan saying the UN prematurely halted the probe under pressure from the United States, which wanted to maintain good relations with Mr. Kagame. His current report says only Mr. Kagame's forces had missiles capable of causing a plane crash. However, the Kagame government says there were other arms sources in the region. The French also helped arm Habyarimana government forces. The Kagame government says extremist Hutu forces killed Mr. Habyarimana, who was returning from a peace conference at which he had agreed to share power with the RPA's political wing, the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF). The death of their Hutu leader enabled Hutu extremists to blame the Tutsis and call for the group's slaughter.

"On the face of it, the logic of the Hutu extremists doing it because Habyarimana had seemed too willing to compromise seems strongest," said Gerry Caplan, a Canadian political organizer and analyst who wrote a 2000 study of the genocide for the Organization of African Unity. "For Kagame, it seemed there would inevitably be chaos and anarchy, and why would that be good for the RPF and the Tutsi? But I have no doubt that if Kagame had thought it was useful to his plans in some way, he wouldn't have hesitated to do it."


Of course, it happened, there was horrendous slaughter and Mr. Kagame, instead of having to share power, attained total power. Only an independent international investigation has any chance of solving the mystery. Why the resistance?
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Post by JoJo82 »

Thanks peeps, some good input there, I do use my brain maybe once a year :o

Have they finished the Amnesties yet (bad spelling I know)? I can remember that if you declared your doings, you would be pardoned and skip going to jail. Now on a brighter note, would you rather go to jail or have to face the whole of your life watching your back??
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Post by Falkens »

What an profound subject to talk about JOJO. I have been reading the book on the genocide in Rwanda by General Dallaire. I must admit that I give him so much credit as a leader in what he was put through and what he achieved. As most of the others have commented on, the Hutsi's were quite adamant they would rule the country after having taken it off the ruling Tutsi's many years ago. A simple quid pro quo, but the other side gets nothing.

The book describes how the few countries, Belgium Ghana and Tunisia were the main contributaries to the peace keeping operation. This is very hard to read from my point of view as the main powers, including ourselves were far too slow to act even though detailed reports were given out on what the situation was. I admire the Generals deportment as he struggled through adversity.
He did however show that the UN department for Peace keeping operations were totally inefficient, bureacratic and un controlled that they could not supply the effort or visulize the extremity of the killings in 94.

I would also like to point out that it is countries like this whom have such a long drawn out history who actually compare each tribe to who owns more cows than the other tribe, and who have children to slaughter adults as killers, actually know no better and are very hard to understand mentality wise in our western and modern culture and society.

I hope this gives you some more information and an insight. Although the history is fairly sophisticated the ethos of both of them is quite simple. They both want to rule, and at the same time they can live together. It would mean that a big wall would have to be put up. Doesn't that sound familiar!!
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Post by Tab »

The thing we are inclined to forget is that most countries have gone through this phase some time in their existence. We ourselves went through a very bloody period for many years caused mainly through religion. Just look at France and America they have all been there.
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Post by harry hackedoff »

look at France and America they have all been there
What :-?
To Rwanda?:o

As a holiday destination?
Is Hotel Rwanda part of Club Med then? :roll:

Agadoo doo doo :P
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Post by Dangermouse »

From reading about the political arguing, international law, complete moral disregard from western countries, in my personal opinion the only way acts of genocide (or other mass violence other than genocide) are going to be stopped in the future is through the use of either PMCs, or coordinated volunteer forces based upon humanist values - similar to the Islamic Mujahideen movement.
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Post by RESS- »

Was it not the Belgians who were responsible for it all in the first place?
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Post by JoJo82 »

RESS- wrote:Was it not the Belgians who were responsible for it all in the first place?
Originally, they were the ones who decided which people went into either tribe, so you could argue, yes.
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Post by Dangermouse »

Belgium divdied up Rwanda, but most of Europe (yes, including the good ol' Brits) dvided up the rest of Africa.
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