SA 80 A2 problems

[Mutley]

Here we go again, and this time its the governments own - National Audit Office - who, with a strange sense of timing, have confirmed that most of our kit is crap in the desert.... lets just wait for all the contractors to come back and tell us that its because the lads arent looking after it properly, or its the wrong type of sand.

Assuming we still have some sort of procurement executive I assume they will recommend that we only need to spend 50% of replacement costs on upgrading everything!

[Chester]

The Sun reports that...

Soldiers were given BOOTS that could not cope with the 45°C heat.

Challenger II TANKS repeatedly broke down with air filters clogged by sand, sometimes after just four hours.

Tank RADIOS were so bad they would not work inside the machines.

Troops struggled with jammed SA80 RIFLES.

And almost 50 per cent of the HELICOPTERS had to quit with rotors lasting 27 hours flying time, rather than 500

The article is at http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2002351351,00.html

[feathers]

lowest bidder gets the contract...

Reassuring.

[Mutley]

Its much more political than that. Remember money isnt everything.

El Presidente!

Party bung anyone

[Bringer]

Even CNN had a bit on this story just now, which is an amazing admission of the existence of another country, one that isn't even being bombed by the US, for them.

It seems odd that the Challenger II is having so much trouble, as I thought it was used in the first Gulf War (getting used to that term as the sequel seems to be just around the corner).

Can one purchase one's own boots and not use the issued ones? Some National Audit fellow on the CNN report said "It's amazing that in 400 years the British Army has never had good boots." I'm not so much worried about the army as I am my feet.

[Si Capon]

I was in B coy 40Cdo in 1986 and we took the SA80 to the desert for it`s first desert trial. Half the company had SLR`s the other half SA80`s
It was junk then.
Sand = stoppages
Having used both weapons at the premier military small arms competition that is Bisley, obviously the SA80 is better. Less recoil, better sighting system etc etc.

I`ve never had to fire either in anger like some of you crusty old fossils on here, but I`d rather have a 7.62 to fire at someone than a 5.56.

The arguement will go on forever until the government come to their senses and adopt a ray gun that costs nothing, weighs nothing, never needs cleaning, never runs out of ammo & comes with a 20yr old blonde Swedish (female) armourer to carry out small arms inspections every morning and evening. It should be lubricated with the users own creamy white gun oil, taken from the handy to swallow pump dispenser.

I`ll have two please!

[harry hackedoff]

Si,
we were having a serious debate( ) on here. Trust a DL to reduce the conversation to such a level. Honestly.
And your missus said that`s never 30 inches

Aye, Harry

[JR]

Owdun is right never had any problems with the SV boot it was the best LPC (leather personel carrier) of its day,it managed to carry the Brigade through some troubled times,and lasted for yonks,and SV Boot was the signature put down on the 'Char Wallas' credit list,I would think that SV Boot,along with BM Lever and KD Short Graced many a Foreign credit Book,'Egg Banjo John'? Aye jr

[Bringer]

From the Americans, regarding American equipment, but it's interesting to see their failure and confidence rates. Does anyone know of a similar study conducted with 45 Commando?

http://ironbarr.com/073002armynatick.pdf

Selected portions:

17. M4 Carbine

• 34% of Soldiers reported that their M4’s handguards rattle and become excessively hot when firing.

• 15% reported that they had troubles zeroing the M68 Reflex Sight.

• 35% added barber brushes and 24% added dental picks to their cleaning kits.

• Soldiers reported the following malfunctions:

– 20% reported double feeding

– 15% reported feeding jams

– 13% reported that feeding problems were due to magazines.

• 89% reported confidence in the weapon.

• 20% were dissatisfied with its ease of maintenance.

• Problems reported locking magazines in and some soldiers had to chamber a round in order to lock the magazine.

• Soldiers asked for a weapon with a larger round, "So it will drop a man with one shot."



18. M203 Grenade Launcher

• 50% stated that they had engaged the enemy with their M203 (personnel, buildings, bunkers, and vehicles).

• One soldier used a non-lethal round which fit poorly into the weapon (too tight).

• 15% reported that their M203 malfunctioned in combat and they could not open the breach due to stuck breach latches.

• In general, however, Soldiers reported that they were confident in their M203s.

• Other suggestions: buckshot round, better safety switch, non-slip grip on the hand-guard, and a 40mm muzzle cap.



19. M249 SAW

• 25% had engaged the enemy with their SAWs (personnel, bunkers, buildings, and vehicles).

• 54% reported problems cleaning or maintaining their weapons.

• 30% reported weapons easily rusting.

• 80% of Soldiers were pleased with the weapon’s accuracy and lethality.

• 64% of the Soldiers were confident in their weapon.

• Soldiers reported ammunition drums falling off and rattling.



20. M240B Machine Gun

• 17% reported engaging the enemy with their M240B.

• 42% reported problems getting spare parts in Afghanistan (barrels, springs, small roll pins, T& E pin, heat shields, sear pins, spare barrel bag, cleaning materials).

• 1 soldier reported a double feed in combat.

• 50% reported that they need better ways to carry ammunition (ammo bag, etc.).

• 100% were confident in their weapon.

• 82% felt that their M240B was reliable.

• Suggestions: improved sling, lighter, more durable tripod, more durable heat shield.

Interesting that

[Pilgrim Norway]

Nice to see you're back in business Harry !

I was in Lympstone for the STW Reunion t'other day and I used the Friday
to renew my geographical knowledge of Lympstone village - you know, the Globe and the Railway....

I met a couple of the lads newly returned from Afghanistan and they had no knowledge of the discussion in these pages.

- So when I told them that I was visiting from Norway and thought that, really, they could at least keep their weapons cleaned as ordained by the manufacturers as it looked so bad in the foreign press, they almost went through the ceiling. I can confirm the entry by El T here earlier... just as they told me in the Railway... Nowt functioned when the choppers reached Bagration.

Otherwise lads, the SV boot and the delightful chukkha boot of Aden were
ok by me - and I still do a fair bit of yomping on the old extremeties -
Not that one Harry...

I think that the problem nowadays is that the loads that are expected to be carried demand a tougher, more stable boot.
After all, we only had to carry stuff like radios, extra batteries, mortar bases, amunition for fifty four days and water for fifteen and an SLR that worked - and that you could whack a bren mag onto.....

Not much support in a chukkha boot but they were dependable and comfortable too... Perhaps they might work today ?

HOONyway, these experts must be good at something - pension planning perhaps.

[El Prez]

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/display ... Node=78926

Try the link above, it will take you to the Western Morning News, which has two pieces on Royals return, thoughts on equipment etc.

[harry hackedoff]

He didn`t invent it, Babe. He merely nicked the idea from Herman`s M.P.44.
Job Tmaj.(spelling`s f&*ked, but phonetically I think it means "Get Fuc*&d)
Stand by for terrible retribution from "She Who Must Be Obeyed"

OWW, Sorry Loz OUCH

[Shoulderholster]

Thats right Harry,last year Comrade Kalishnikov actually comfessed to copying the MP44.After years of speculation he has come clean,I wonder if he has to return his "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal and exchange his "nice flat" for a place in a Gulag.
But Loz even if he only copied it there is no taking away the fact the the AKS74U is a sexy item,phwoar!
SH