Fat loss and muscle building

[AJtothemax]

Thanks mate, you've put some good, helpful stuff on here so far.

Cheers

No drama mate, i appreciate it. Mind how you go ok.

[ADDiction]

First time I have read through this thread, and quite a read it is. You were well and truly rattled AJ, but you battled back well.

Interesting point Artist made considering his weight. I have recently been told my recommended weight for my height is 12 stone 10lbs, this classes me as overweight. I am currently 5 weeks into a clean bulking phase and measure at 12% body fat, the Doc then tells me this is 8% below average .

So how can anyone tell me I am overweight?

Artist, 27 years of age, 16 stone, and able to run 10 miles full fighting order......the words machine, brick shithouse, tank, and beast come to mind.

[AJtothemax]

First time I have read through this thread, and quite a read it is. You were well and truly rattled AJ, but you battled back well.

Interesting point Artist made considering his weight. I have recently been told my recommended weight for my height is 12 stone 10lbs, this classes me as overweight. I am currently 5 weeks into a clean bulking phase and measure at 12% body fat, the Doc then tells me this is 8% below average .

So how can anyone tell me I am overweight?

Artist, 27 years of age, 16 stone, and able to run 10 miles full fighting order......the words machine, brick shithouse, tank, and beast come to mind.

Oh yeah mate what a load of crap but i put all that to bed ages ago, bloody stupid arguement over nothing. These things happen

Yeah i understand what you mean about the weight, but you're only over weight compared to the average joe90 on the street, you're training, so naturally you would add weight to your frame depending on what you're doing, as long as you're healthy theres nothing to worry about, im sure you know that mate. I was just over 13st but ive lost so much through injury and running now, now im not too bothered about my size and power as i dont need to be as big or as powerful anymore, and by power i mean boshing 20st blokes onto their arse in the mud! God thats good fun!

You're dead right about Artist, any Royal Marine is a machine in his own right.

When it comes to tussling around with big blokes you cant beat Rugby mate Id recommend it to anyone who wants to condition themselves to being hit and such like. Its great stuff for building power and speed.

Anyway, all the best.

EDIT: Spelling after a heavy night out on the trash isn't always the best!

[ADDiction]

This is the problem I have with their standards. The heaviest I've hit the scales at was 15stone 3lbs with an 18% bodyfat reading, the recommended percentage being 20. However, the Doc will tell the patient they are overweight, putting emphasis on them being unhealthy.

I would love to know what he tells the true gym heavyweights.

[AJtothemax]

This is the problem I have with their standards. The heaviest I've hit the scales at was 15stone 3lbs with an 18% bodyfat reading, the recommended percentage being 20. However, the Doc will tell the patient they are overweight, putting emphasis on them being unhealthy.

I would love to know what he tells the true gym heavyweights.

If your body fat percentage was high then yes i assume you would be, but you and i both know muscle is heavier than fat. If he thinks you are, get him to sort you out some sort of cardio test, like a VO2 max test and then he might change his mind. Of course he could always get your heart examined more thoroughly, if everythings in order - whats the problem?

I've always known i was ok, when i had my pre-op last August before my operation i was spot on with everything and i was told "i was a very healthy young man" and it was good to hear that from a medical professional. Again, when i had my medical test for the forces i was pretty much spot on and told i was strong and healthy then, i only failed it the first time because of my operation, i have to wait a year before they will accept me so this coming August its back on again, doing my bloody head in though!

Again, you are right though. When i get more time im going to post some more info and hopefuly get it made into a sticky again.

[ADDiction]

It isn't that particular Doc I have the problem with, it's the medical scientist that draws out these weight category charts. They don't seem to relate to athletes, so why judge me on a non-athlete chart.

A guy I know went for a checkup, 45 years of age, 5ft 11. He was 14 stone 5lbs which is pretty reasonable, good solid build, no beer belly. They told him he should consider coming down too 12 stone 7lbs!

That's a chubby woman's weight

I cannot remember my last VO2 score, but my PB 1.5miler was 9.03, and my 3miler 18.57.

Could an overweight individual achieve these times?

Maybe they should create a new chart.

[Iles]

The body mass INdex is completely feckin useless to determine wether someone is overweight.

I don't believe the medical world still actually uses it as it's not really much use to anyone as you get very fit people being obese on it and people who probably should lose some body fat in the 'normal' range.

How does this help anyone?

(rant over)

Matt

[AJtothemax]

Well with times changing so fast these days you would like to think they could perhaps get around that some how, evidently not in this case.

ADDiction screw em mate (not literallty ), if you can do those times and your recovery rate is good as in BPM (heart rate) then you are healthy - end of discussion. But, thats just my view.

[scouse bloke]

Hi all, Ive only just come across this post but...........
..........anyway.........

Im not trying to be clever, but i felt there are a few points that have to be made.

1. "Muscle is heavier than fat" ??
errrm.....1 pound of fat weighs the same as 1 pound of muscle

2. "Diet is the second most important thing" ??
errrm....sory but wrong. Any training program (for whatever goal) relies entirely by 60% diet, and 40% training.
(Think about obese people for example, - some of them on deaths door cant even move)

3. 1 gram of carb = 3.75 cals (not 4), 1 gram of protein = 4 cals, and 1 gram of fat equals 9 cals. (1 gram of alcohol = 7 cals)

Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of exactly how many calories are needed per day, - per individual.

(rant over )

[rc]

2. "Diet is the second most important thing" ??
errrm....sory but wrong. Any training program (for whatever goal) relies entirely by 60% diet, and 40% training.
(Think about obese people for example, - some of them on deaths door cant even move)

I don't understand what you mean by the above ?

How can you quantify the importance of diet and training as you have ?

Rich.

[_chris]

1. "Muscle is heavier than fat" ??
errrm.....1 pound of fat weighs the same as 1 pound of muscle

2. "Diet is the second most important thing" ??
errrm....sory but wrong. Any training program (for whatever goal) relies entirely by 60% diet, and 40% training.
(Think about obese people for example, - some of them on deaths door cant even move)

3. 1 gram of carb = 3.75 cals (not 4), 1 gram of protein = 4 cals, and 1 gram of fat equals 9 cals. (1 gram of alcohol = 7 cals)

Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of exactly how many calories are needed per day, - per individual.

1.Yes equal weights of things weigh the same, the point is that muscle is heavier than fat i.e. 1 cubic cm of muscle weighs more than 1 cubic cm of fat. If the point made had been mucles weighs more than fat then you could have made a point, a very pendantic one based on true definitions, but as your post even says, it was that muscle is heavier than fat.

Definition of heavy for you

1 a: having great weight; also : characterized by mass or weight <how heavy is it?> b: having a high specific gravity : having great weight in proportion to bulk c (1)of an isotope : having or being atoms of greater than normal mass for that element (2)of a compound : containing heavy isotopes

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heavy

2. As above post

Also peoples calorie requirements are different, and are inflienced by a wide range of factors so no one could say how much people required. Here is a site to calculate your particular BMR, and then calculate how many calories you use excercising, commuting etc. then you'll ahve your amount, ask anyone in this thread to calculate their total average it'll be different.

Im not trying to be clever,

I'm glad

[Spence]

Taking what both _chris and rc have said slightly further, energy expenditure is made up of several factors including resting metabolic rate (RMR), calorie cost of activity, thermic effect of food (TEF), and adaptive thermogenesis (the X factor). The balance of intake and expenditure is an important factor in weight gain or loss. If you have a positive energy balance (intake exceeds expenditure), you gain weight. A negative energy balance (intake is less than expenditure) dictates that you'll lose weight. Simple enough.

If anybody would like me to PM them all the maths on how to figure all of these out then feel free to ask, but it is very long winded!

Also Scouse Bloke, in the percentages you gave, there was absolutly no mention of lifestyle, which is clearly very imprtant factor in the whole training equation. All three need to be in balance to acheive maximum gains, although gains can be made in less than idea situations.

[scouse bloke]

1. "Muscle is heavier than fat" ??
errrm.....1 pound of fat weighs the same as 1 pound of muscle

2. "Diet is the second most important thing" ??
errrm....sory but wrong. Any training program (for whatever goal) relies entirely by 60% diet, and 40% training.
(Think about obese people for example, - some of them on deaths door cant even move)

3. 1 gram of carb = 3.75 cals (not 4), 1 gram of protein = 4 cals, and 1 gram of fat equals 9 cals. (1 gram of alcohol = 7 cals)

Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention whatsoever of exactly how many calories are needed per day, - per individual.

1.Yes equal weights of things weigh the same, the point is that muscle is heavier than fat i.e. 1 cubic cm of muscle weighs more than 1 cubic cm of fat. If the point made had been mucles weighs more than fat then you could have made a point, a very pendantic one based on true definitions, but as your post even says, it was that muscle is heavier than fat.

Definition of heavy for you

1 a: having great weight; also : characterized by mass or weight <how heavy is it?> b: having a high specific gravity : having great weight in proportion to bulk c (1)of an isotope : having or being atoms of greater than normal mass for that element (2)of a compound : containing heavy isotopes

http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heavy

2. As above post

Also peoples calorie requirements are different, and are inflienced by a wide range of factors so no one could say how much people required. Here is a site to calculate your particular BMR, and then calculate how many calories you use excercising, commuting etc. then you'll ahve your amount, ask anyone in this thread to calculate their total average it'll be different.

Im not trying to be clever,

I'm glad

Well.....Thanks for that mate

Obviously some people like to be a bit more PEDANTIC than others.
......but there you go

[scouse bloke]

2. "Diet is the second most important thing" ??
errrm....sory but wrong. Any training program (for whatever goal) relies entirely by 60% diet, and 40% training.
(Think about obese people for example, - some of them on deaths door cant even move)

I don't understand what you mean by the above ?

How can you quantify the importance of diet and training as you have ?

Rich.

Generally mate, all I'm trying to say is that no amount of exercise will accomodate for the wrong diet.
Therefore, diet can't be secondary to exercise.

[AJtothemax]

With reference to 'the second most important thing', i refer you again to my original post:

3) Mental Attitude – This is without a doubt, the most important aspect of this ok.

Case closed.