Chunky get yourself a laptop, that'll while away those hours of bordom, then again they might not want to you to get too excited if you know what I mean
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Special Boat Service New Cap Badge
Chunky, SB you two could probably answer this best, would they let you were both the new SBS cap badge and the globe and laurels on your beret if you had earned them ala Monty? I've been told that the SFs are more relaxed and more into self disapline but would that stretch to the beret?
Chunky get yourself a laptop, that'll while away those hours of bordom, then again they might not want to you to get too excited if you know what I mean
Chunky get yourself a laptop, that'll while away those hours of bordom, then again they might not want to you to get too excited if you know what I mean
"This far and no further" - Britain, World War 1 & 2
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sneaky beaky
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Chunky, sorry to hear you are in hospital again. I hope you get out in good health PDQ! I also promote you to honorary Royal Marine! You are starting to understand what we older guys at least, don't want to give up.
Keep your chin up and I hope you have a very good New Year. Sneaky.
Aldo, that is certainly a unique answer! My only reservation is that it would draw attention to the wearer - which is something that the SBS have been able to avoid for donkeys years! In ordinary uniform, you couldn't tell an SB Marine from an ordinary one, except perhaps in the latter years by his longer hair!!. Now he has got a different cap badge, which immediately singles him out and I'm not sure that is a good thing.
S.B.
Keep your chin up and I hope you have a very good New Year. Sneaky.
Aldo, that is certainly a unique answer! My only reservation is that it would draw attention to the wearer - which is something that the SBS have been able to avoid for donkeys years! In ordinary uniform, you couldn't tell an SB Marine from an ordinary one, except perhaps in the latter years by his longer hair!!. Now he has got a different cap badge, which immediately singles him out and I'm not sure that is a good thing.
S.B.
Former RM of 23 years.
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sneaky beaky
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Rotary Booty
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Sneaky
I couldn't agree more, on both points!
However, the idea of the new beret badge is so that those Army, Navy, and RAF personnel in the SBS don't wear their own regimental insignia, and therefore everyone looks the same. As the SBS CO stated:
The second reason is to achieve the commonality of appearance that enhances unit cohesion. I wouldn't have wanted them to wear the G&L if they weren't RM!
When the SBS was made up totally of RM, they were just another of many specialist branches in the Corps, albeit that bit special. They did their job, and the rest of us did ours. I liked the way they didn't stand out, other than wearing an SC badge, and they didn't dash back to base to bash out another 'best seller' either. Like the Corps in general, they weren't publicity hunters, they didn't win a rack of medals because, like the rest of us, they were just doing the job.
I guess it's inevitable change, like 'Troops' becoming 'Companies', brass becoming staybrite, gay now meaning homosexual, girls flying fast jets and Chunky actually liking us!
We may not like all the changes, but there's rock all we can do about it!
Aye, Derek
I couldn't agree more, on both points!
However, the idea of the new beret badge is so that those Army, Navy, and RAF personnel in the SBS don't wear their own regimental insignia, and therefore everyone looks the same. As the SBS CO stated:
The second reason is to achieve the commonality of appearance that enhances unit cohesion. I wouldn't have wanted them to wear the G&L if they weren't RM!
When the SBS was made up totally of RM, they were just another of many specialist branches in the Corps, albeit that bit special. They did their job, and the rest of us did ours. I liked the way they didn't stand out, other than wearing an SC badge, and they didn't dash back to base to bash out another 'best seller' either. Like the Corps in general, they weren't publicity hunters, they didn't win a rack of medals because, like the rest of us, they were just doing the job.
I guess it's inevitable change, like 'Troops' becoming 'Companies', brass becoming staybrite, gay now meaning homosexual, girls flying fast jets and Chunky actually liking us!
We may not like all the changes, but there's rock all we can do about it!
Aye, Derek
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sneaky beaky
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Hi Derek,
Your comments do make sense in that they are almost inevitable given the fact that they do now draw from the Army, Navy and Air Force. One suggestion I heard recently was that all applicants should do the All Arms Commando Course prior to the SF selection training. That would serve two purposes ; 1.) It would weed out the no hoper's before SF training
2.) On passing the SBS Course they would then be ENTITLED to wear the Green Beret. Unfortunately that doesn't get round the Cap badge problem, (which to me isn't a problem), but if they all wore the same hat at least they would look "similar"! They could still wear their own Cap Badges without sticking out too much.
I know this is dreamworld territory but it sounds better to me.
P.S. I hope to see you in the New Year!
S.B.
Your comments do make sense in that they are almost inevitable given the fact that they do now draw from the Army, Navy and Air Force. One suggestion I heard recently was that all applicants should do the All Arms Commando Course prior to the SF selection training. That would serve two purposes ; 1.) It would weed out the no hoper's before SF training
2.) On passing the SBS Course they would then be ENTITLED to wear the Green Beret. Unfortunately that doesn't get round the Cap badge problem, (which to me isn't a problem), but if they all wore the same hat at least they would look "similar"! They could still wear their own Cap Badges without sticking out too much.
I know this is dreamworld territory but it sounds better to me.
P.S. I hope to see you in the New Year!
S.B.
Former RM of 23 years.
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Jason The Argonaut
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I'm glad to hear my thread gave you something to think about while you were in hospital chunky.chunky from york wrote:Being stuck in Hospital, ones mind wanders all over the place from boredom and I gave some thought to this thread.
l:To be honest I thought there was no problem with the old cap badge, but there you go, the worlds a funny old place.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
Thanks
Like to Thank You All for the above information.
I have studies in SAS and SBS over many years and fine these groups very...very interesting as some of our US Force Groups. Thanks again very much to all adding to this subject. I have learned a great deal from you men. We do have SF..Delta..Grey Fox..SEAL..LRR..SR Operators..Force Recon..Det.1....Air Group and others...Happy New Year!
I have studies in SAS and SBS over many years and fine these groups very...very interesting as some of our US Force Groups. Thanks again very much to all adding to this subject. I have learned a great deal from you men. We do have SF..Delta..Grey Fox..SEAL..LRR..SR Operators..Force Recon..Det.1....Air Group and others...Happy New Year!
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anglo-saxon
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Reply to an old post that caught my eye.
A lot of this smacks of corporate "politicing". The bean couters who employ the hackers and slashers (those who are quite willing to fly to a theatre of operations with a breifcase full of lay-off slips), are always on the look out to save a sheckels. It does not make sense to a desk jockey, whose mandate it is to save said sheckels, that two (in his mind) very similar SF outfits should coexist with seperate heirarchies (way too much unnecessary overhead!).
I see the new cap badge and increased profile approach as a backlash against a potential "corporate merger" of the SAS and SBS. Beancounters, after all, have absolutely no respect for historical value and the inherrent uniqueness of each unit, nor do they care. Severing certain ties with the RM and placing the SBS under a central controlling entity of SF strikes me as a gradual step towards such a merger. Therefore, it makes sense that the RM and those who feel the need to stand up for them would use what political power they may have in avoiding such a merger at all costs. Hence the changes in dress/profile.
Just thinking out loud, but I have seen this so many times in business and, after all, the governement bean-counters are businessmen.
Interesting though, that what appears to be a Roman sword be used as the dagger. The symblolism is either lost in the translation or it was never really given a great deal of thought in the first place. I would have thought the F-S commando dagger would be more appropriate.
A lot of this smacks of corporate "politicing". The bean couters who employ the hackers and slashers (those who are quite willing to fly to a theatre of operations with a breifcase full of lay-off slips), are always on the look out to save a sheckels. It does not make sense to a desk jockey, whose mandate it is to save said sheckels, that two (in his mind) very similar SF outfits should coexist with seperate heirarchies (way too much unnecessary overhead!).
I see the new cap badge and increased profile approach as a backlash against a potential "corporate merger" of the SAS and SBS. Beancounters, after all, have absolutely no respect for historical value and the inherrent uniqueness of each unit, nor do they care. Severing certain ties with the RM and placing the SBS under a central controlling entity of SF strikes me as a gradual step towards such a merger. Therefore, it makes sense that the RM and those who feel the need to stand up for them would use what political power they may have in avoiding such a merger at all costs. Hence the changes in dress/profile.
Just thinking out loud, but I have seen this so many times in business and, after all, the governement bean-counters are businessmen.
Interesting though, that what appears to be a Roman sword be used as the dagger. The symblolism is either lost in the translation or it was never really given a great deal of thought in the first place. I would have thought the F-S commando dagger would be more appropriate.
Last edited by anglo-saxon on Sun 08 Aug, 2004 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sneaky beaky
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This is much worse than I feared.
I have just learned that the new changes include;
1. A new stable belt for the SBS which is completely different from the old "Corps Belt" and with a new clasp which incorporates the new cap badge design.
2. Lovats become the number 1. dress uniform whilst serving with the SBS. i.e. for ceremonial parades such as Remembrance Sunday, Lovats will be the dress to wear. The reasoning being, is that you can't wear a beret (other than Kings Squad) with Blues.
3. They now have their own Lanyard to be worn with said Lovats. We never had one before! Why now!!
4. And finally, they now have their own "Flag". I didn't actually hear it called "colours" and I don't recollect hearing the SBS being awarded colours but the implications are worrying.
Sneaky
PS. One other thing, they have a different Para Wings. It isn't SF and it isn't the normal Para wings. Just something different.
These guys are going to stick out like a sore thumb!!
I have just learned that the new changes include;
1. A new stable belt for the SBS which is completely different from the old "Corps Belt" and with a new clasp which incorporates the new cap badge design.
2. Lovats become the number 1. dress uniform whilst serving with the SBS. i.e. for ceremonial parades such as Remembrance Sunday, Lovats will be the dress to wear. The reasoning being, is that you can't wear a beret (other than Kings Squad) with Blues.
3. They now have their own Lanyard to be worn with said Lovats. We never had one before! Why now!!
4. And finally, they now have their own "Flag". I didn't actually hear it called "colours" and I don't recollect hearing the SBS being awarded colours but the implications are worrying.
Sneaky
PS. One other thing, they have a different Para Wings. It isn't SF and it isn't the normal Para wings. Just something different.
These guys are going to stick out like a sore thumb!!
Former RM of 23 years.
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bootneck
- Guest
On the 18th November 2003 the Royal Marines Special Boat Service ceased to exist.
The SBS as known by many Marines is now part of history.
In its place we now have the Special Boat Service UK Special Forces.
I have followed with interest over the past few years the arguments for this new formation and have noted the various reasons given for this new formation.
I continue to come to the same conclusion, a political move taken by certain people a case of what you cannot aspire to be you take over and destroy from within!
"A rationale for changing the SBS regimental identity" as stated by the CO SBS.
The SBS was not a regiment, but the SAS?
I understand you no longer have to be a diver to be in the SBS and at the same time standards within the boating and other waterborne skills are being eroaded.
All in all a major shift towards the SAS type of formation.
Even the change in the motto pointed this way.
I have heard it said by members of the Royal Marines Special Boat Service that if they wanted to go yomping over the jebel they could have joined the SAS.
On the same line from members of the SAS if they wanted to paddle a canoe they would have joined the marines.
As the Royal Marines need information regarding waterborne operations perhaps it now needs to form its own specialist amphibious unit to gather information on beaches and perhaps in such areas as underwater sabotage?
Thinking of the security aspect perhaps a rather mundane sounding name for this unit--Combined Operations Pilotage Party perhaps.
Petronious Arbitor is alive and well.
Rover
The SBS as known by many Marines is now part of history.
In its place we now have the Special Boat Service UK Special Forces.
I have followed with interest over the past few years the arguments for this new formation and have noted the various reasons given for this new formation.
I continue to come to the same conclusion, a political move taken by certain people a case of what you cannot aspire to be you take over and destroy from within!
"A rationale for changing the SBS regimental identity" as stated by the CO SBS.
The SBS was not a regiment, but the SAS?
I understand you no longer have to be a diver to be in the SBS and at the same time standards within the boating and other waterborne skills are being eroaded.
All in all a major shift towards the SAS type of formation.
Even the change in the motto pointed this way.
I have heard it said by members of the Royal Marines Special Boat Service that if they wanted to go yomping over the jebel they could have joined the SAS.
On the same line from members of the SAS if they wanted to paddle a canoe they would have joined the marines.
As the Royal Marines need information regarding waterborne operations perhaps it now needs to form its own specialist amphibious unit to gather information on beaches and perhaps in such areas as underwater sabotage?
Thinking of the security aspect perhaps a rather mundane sounding name for this unit--Combined Operations Pilotage Party perhaps.
Petronious Arbitor is alive and well.
Rover
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sneaky beaky
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Rover, I appreciate your delve into history and that the new unit might be a "COPP" Party but isn't it more likely to be called the Special Boat Unit RM!!, with special emphasis on the RM!!
I happened to have cause to go into Poole today (although only "The Hard" part of it,) and I didn't see one new cap badge.!! Perhaps they're too ashamed to wear it!!
However, to their credit, they did lay on a Landing Craft to go out into Poole Bay - where we scattered the ashes of former Royal Marine and former SBS rating, Paul Kilby, finally to rest. The Squadron Padre conducted a small service and a few of his friends were present. I personally poured a glass of the finest Scotch Whisky, (which Paul loved) over his ashes.
So the SBS are still trying to be part of the Corps.
Talking to the Padre afterwards , he said that the reason for change was"evolution" and that they need to show themselves as at least equal to the SAS, which we all know they are but the "Powers That Be" don't.
I can see the point but tradition has taken a hammering.
Sneaky
I happened to have cause to go into Poole today (although only "The Hard" part of it,) and I didn't see one new cap badge.!! Perhaps they're too ashamed to wear it!!
However, to their credit, they did lay on a Landing Craft to go out into Poole Bay - where we scattered the ashes of former Royal Marine and former SBS rating, Paul Kilby, finally to rest. The Squadron Padre conducted a small service and a few of his friends were present. I personally poured a glass of the finest Scotch Whisky, (which Paul loved) over his ashes.
So the SBS are still trying to be part of the Corps.
Talking to the Padre afterwards , he said that the reason for change was"evolution" and that they need to show themselves as at least equal to the SAS, which we all know they are but the "Powers That Be" don't.
I can see the point but tradition has taken a hammering.
Sneaky
Former RM of 23 years.
I have just returned from CTCRM (PRMC) and when we went to the realities of training lecture, i passed a poster with the new SBS logo on it asking for 'fit, young men looking for excitment and adventure'. Before i could read the rest i was 'told off' by the corporal for being a 'nosey so and so' and was made to do fifty press up's for my trouble.
Anyway the point was that the new badge is alive and well at CTCRM.
Anyway the point was that the new badge is alive and well at CTCRM.
