i like that idea but i still think those bastards should be punished for what they did...they deserve to die...
lew
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Six British Troops killed in Iraq
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Rotary Booty
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lew
If what you say is the right thing to do, we would also have to kill everyone in Soham, because two of their community allegedly murdered two school girls!
I can't believe you really mean that. We are all angry at what has happened, but that sort of vengeance is immature and counter productive.
It didn't work in Vietnam, and the Americans tried it, and it wouldn't work in Iraq.
If what you say is the right thing to do, we would also have to kill everyone in Soham, because two of their community allegedly murdered two school girls!
I can't believe you really mean that. We are all angry at what has happened, but that sort of vengeance is immature and counter productive.
It didn't work in Vietnam, and the Americans tried it, and it wouldn't work in Iraq.
[img]http://avanimation.avsupport.com/gif/Snoopy.gif[/img] So far.....so good........but watch your six!
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Jason The Argonaut
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I feel if we pull our troops out now Iraq will end up being a terrorist state. Because I don't think the US can control the whole of Iraq on its own. I think our troops should stay there until a UN force is moved in to help run the country with other Iraq leaders.Still, it reinforces in my mind that we should simply walk away, and get them home
in my mind the role of the armed forces is to protect the sovereignty and security of britain. Not a pawn of the PM to send off on wars in the middle of nowhere.
But if Iraq was under British control
and we where running the country than having our troops there would be justified.I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
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Lew
Your way is one step away from anarchy. An eye for an eye don't work very well as nine times out of ten the people "removed" are innocent of the crime. And all that happens is another group of people get "removed". And so on............
Let the powers that be get the real bas*ards who committed this crime and then when all doubt has been removed over whether they did it or not "String the Bas*ards up with rusty barbed wire by there bollocks"
Aye Artist
Your way is one step away from anarchy. An eye for an eye don't work very well as nine times out of ten the people "removed" are innocent of the crime. And all that happens is another group of people get "removed". And so on............
Let the powers that be get the real bas*ards who committed this crime and then when all doubt has been removed over whether they did it or not "String the Bas*ards up with rusty barbed wire by there bollocks"
Aye Artist
'We' (USA and UK) go into Iraq, and 'liberate' the Shi'ites, the most conservative and repressive religious group in Iraq. Our troops enter their homes and destroy their trust in a search for weapons, nothing new there. Meanwhile we attempt to educate their police force and army, placing under armed police in an exposed position without back up or adequate ammunition.
The main mistake is not understanding the depth of anathema created by a white male entering a Muslim house and seeing a Muslim female, unveiled in the 'sanctity' of her home. As I said earlier, we cannot/will not understand the mind set of these people, the absolute outrage they feel and their particular way of expressing it. Perhaps it should not shock us Brits too much; all of us should have nightmare memories of the two corporals murdered by an IRA mob under the gaze of heli-tele. Step back a touch and consider that there is no difference in the crime, just the nationalities of the perpetrators.
In the wake of the murder of the Redcaps, the USA, (Condoleeza Rice) is openly discussing regime change in Iran and N. Korea, via insurrection with USA support, or direct USA intervention. Between times there are upsurges of violence against our forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. Doesn't anybody in power understand the necessity to finish one task before kicking off with another? The excuse they are repeating re Iran and Korea is possession of Nuclear capabilities.
Here we go again. I'd like to see Blair lie his way into this one.
The main mistake is not understanding the depth of anathema created by a white male entering a Muslim house and seeing a Muslim female, unveiled in the 'sanctity' of her home. As I said earlier, we cannot/will not understand the mind set of these people, the absolute outrage they feel and their particular way of expressing it. Perhaps it should not shock us Brits too much; all of us should have nightmare memories of the two corporals murdered by an IRA mob under the gaze of heli-tele. Step back a touch and consider that there is no difference in the crime, just the nationalities of the perpetrators.
In the wake of the murder of the Redcaps, the USA, (Condoleeza Rice) is openly discussing regime change in Iran and N. Korea, via insurrection with USA support, or direct USA intervention. Between times there are upsurges of violence against our forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. Doesn't anybody in power understand the necessity to finish one task before kicking off with another? The excuse they are repeating re Iran and Korea is possession of Nuclear capabilities.
Here we go again. I'd like to see Blair lie his way into this one.
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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El Presidente
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El Presidente
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Its a natural thought to initially read the aricle and want revenge
but the only ones who should be punished are those responsible of course
going into the town and laying it to waste would not only kill people who had nothing to do with it.
But escalate the situation, meaning more death on both sides
It makes me so angry, anyone with half a brain can tell now that blair lied through his teeth about the "wmd ready to fire in 45 minutes". Yet he hasnt got what he deserves (to be sent to the tower as far as im concerned).
We are supposed to live in a democracy, yet calls for a public inquiry into what is such a serious lie (sending troops to war) is just arrogantly ignored. The PM has even refused to talk to the half hearted private inquiry. If he has nothing to hide, why not have a public investigation instead of a private one, which is being condicted by ministers appointed by the PM who privately report to the pm himself!!, its laughable really.
We should ask the UN to take control imho, let other countries troops risk their necks.
but the only ones who should be punished are those responsible of course
going into the town and laying it to waste would not only kill people who had nothing to do with it.
But escalate the situation, meaning more death on both sides
It makes me so angry, anyone with half a brain can tell now that blair lied through his teeth about the "wmd ready to fire in 45 minutes". Yet he hasnt got what he deserves (to be sent to the tower as far as im concerned).
We are supposed to live in a democracy, yet calls for a public inquiry into what is such a serious lie (sending troops to war) is just arrogantly ignored. The PM has even refused to talk to the half hearted private inquiry. If he has nothing to hide, why not have a public investigation instead of a private one, which is being condicted by ministers appointed by the PM who privately report to the pm himself!!, its laughable really.
We should ask the UN to take control imho, let other countries troops risk their necks.
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Andy O'Pray
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I have not read the Sun article to which you refer, but reading your comments it would indicate irresponsible journalism, highlighting details which we did not need to know. Those of us who have been on active service in the Middle East will not be surprised by what happened. Having said that, look what happened to the unfortunate British servicemen who fell into the hands of the IRA, or the ones that fell into the hands of the Israeli's, or many other conflicts in which Britain has been involved.
My heart felt condolences go out to the families and friends of those killed.
I was never in agreement with us getting involved in this conflict, but now that we are, we are going to have to see it through to the end. The Iraqi's knew that they could not take on the US and UK in a stand up battle, so this type of warfare would have been expected.
Aye - Andy.
My heart felt condolences go out to the families and friends of those killed.
I was never in agreement with us getting involved in this conflict, but now that we are, we are going to have to see it through to the end. The Iraqi's knew that they could not take on the US and UK in a stand up battle, so this type of warfare would have been expected.
Aye - Andy.
to el prez
el prez, this is the response of a moroccon muslim i used to chat to a lot. It might help people understand how their mind works. Talk of the us and uk being welcomed as "liberators" just doesnt seem to get reflected in the view of any muslim i have spoken too
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@may
Didn't I tell you this before the war started? I told you that they would not be received as heroes and that things would get messy. I also told you that the hatred towards the US because of Palestine will be stronger then the hatred towards Saddam. And searching through women's wardrobe's in their houses with dog's is a serious offence. The bigger offence is that they show they don't respect our rules and laws. The characteristics of an occupier
"All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, Who has sent down to His slave (Muhammad SAW) the Book (the Qur'ân), and has not placed therein any crookedness.
He has made it) Straight to give warning (to the disbelievers) of a severe punishment from Him, and to give glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism), who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a fair reward (i.e. Paradise).
They shall abide therein forever
And to warn those who say, "Allâh has begotten a son"
No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths They utter nothing but a lie."
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@may
Didn't I tell you this before the war started? I told you that they would not be received as heroes and that things would get messy. I also told you that the hatred towards the US because of Palestine will be stronger then the hatred towards Saddam. And searching through women's wardrobe's in their houses with dog's is a serious offence. The bigger offence is that they show they don't respect our rules and laws. The characteristics of an occupier
"All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, Who has sent down to His slave (Muhammad SAW) the Book (the Qur'ân), and has not placed therein any crookedness.
He has made it) Straight to give warning (to the disbelievers) of a severe punishment from Him, and to give glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism), who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a fair reward (i.e. Paradise).
They shall abide therein forever
And to warn those who say, "Allâh has begotten a son"
No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths They utter nothing but a lie."
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It started well but perhaps all that fire and brimstone stuff loses a bit in translation - I don't doubt the sincerity though. Wouldn't mind knowing who the 'they' is (working in the City and all that). Does he know any places to avoid in the near future? I don't share his faith (or any faith) so I suppose I'm a disbeliever but I'm not a bad person really, honest 
El Prez you mentioned the Para's and the trouble they have been in,
The incident in Pristina was caused by a young man sitting in the bonnet of a car blasting away with a AK47 when his mate slapped on the brakes
of the car. The chap shot forwad keeping his finger on the trigger and a Para who standing nearby found bullets whistling all around him so he thinking he was under attack shot back killing the gun man, Now who in that postion would not have done the same thing. The others troubles in
Northern Ireland was caused by gangs of repulicans shouting abuse at the Para's and taking joy over a Para that had just been killed by them, they did not open fire on them they went out when they were of duty found them and knocked seven bells out of them. Well the other one about them
shooting the joy riders, well they could have stopped but did not, then there was the fit up of Private Clegg he was one of five paratroopers that opened fire on the car and with out a shred of fronisic evidence wound
getting a life sentence for man slaughter, it was later proved he could not have been the one to fire the shots that killed them , but did he get any compensation like the IRA did he hell.
The incident in Pristina was caused by a young man sitting in the bonnet of a car blasting away with a AK47 when his mate slapped on the brakes
of the car. The chap shot forwad keeping his finger on the trigger and a Para who standing nearby found bullets whistling all around him so he thinking he was under attack shot back killing the gun man, Now who in that postion would not have done the same thing. The others troubles in
Northern Ireland was caused by gangs of repulicans shouting abuse at the Para's and taking joy over a Para that had just been killed by them, they did not open fire on them they went out when they were of duty found them and knocked seven bells out of them. Well the other one about them
shooting the joy riders, well they could have stopped but did not, then there was the fit up of Private Clegg he was one of five paratroopers that opened fire on the car and with out a shred of fronisic evidence wound
getting a life sentence for man slaughter, it was later proved he could not have been the one to fire the shots that killed them , but did he get any compensation like the IRA did he hell.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... 74,00.html
No wonder Lee Clegg looked bemused yesterday. It was only when he left the dock and joined his mother and stepfather in a court ante-room that he learned he had been cleared of murdering a teenage joyrider nine years ago. He broke down and wept.
His 39-day retrial was bogged down in forensic science. There were claims and counter-claims about holes four and eight, and the theory of the tumbling bullet, forwarded by his defence, had a touch of the Kennedy assassination about it. No one found it easy to follow, and Mr Justice Kerr's ruling was just as elusive.
He lambasted Clegg, now aged 30, for 186 pages of his ruling, labelling his defence a farrago of deceit and lies. He rejected Clegg's evidence about how he came to fire four shots at a Vauxhall Astra in west Belfast just before midnight on September 30, 1990.
But, when he reached the final three pages of his ruling, Mr Justice Kerr said the forensic evidence forced him to give Clegg the benefit of the doubt. He was grudging in his verdict.
A 16-man patrol from the 3rd Battalion of the Parachute Regiment had just begun duty. They had split into four bricks, each of four, and had one RUC officer accompanying them.
They abandoned a fixed checkpoint after one joyrider zoomed through it and instead erected a rolling checkpoint, where a soldier indicates to drivers to stop by circling a torch.
The brick called Victor 11 signalled for the Astra to stop. The driver did so but, as an officer approached, he accelerated away, headlights on full beam.
Clegg, then 21 and in the army nine months, was in Victor 10A brick, and said the car drove towards them, swerving. He claimed he thought it had hit colleague Private Barry Aindow and, in firing, was acting in self-defence and to defend his colleagues.
But the Paras tried to concoct a bizarre defence. They beat Aindow's leg with a rifle so they could claim the car had hit him, but were undone on the evidence of the policeman and a traveller living nearby. The then Private Clegg was jailed for life in June 1993 for murdering Ms Reilly. He also received a four-year sentence for attempting to wound Peake with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.
No wonder Lee Clegg looked bemused yesterday. It was only when he left the dock and joined his mother and stepfather in a court ante-room that he learned he had been cleared of murdering a teenage joyrider nine years ago. He broke down and wept.
His 39-day retrial was bogged down in forensic science. There were claims and counter-claims about holes four and eight, and the theory of the tumbling bullet, forwarded by his defence, had a touch of the Kennedy assassination about it. No one found it easy to follow, and Mr Justice Kerr's ruling was just as elusive.
He lambasted Clegg, now aged 30, for 186 pages of his ruling, labelling his defence a farrago of deceit and lies. He rejected Clegg's evidence about how he came to fire four shots at a Vauxhall Astra in west Belfast just before midnight on September 30, 1990.
But, when he reached the final three pages of his ruling, Mr Justice Kerr said the forensic evidence forced him to give Clegg the benefit of the doubt. He was grudging in his verdict.
A 16-man patrol from the 3rd Battalion of the Parachute Regiment had just begun duty. They had split into four bricks, each of four, and had one RUC officer accompanying them.
They abandoned a fixed checkpoint after one joyrider zoomed through it and instead erected a rolling checkpoint, where a soldier indicates to drivers to stop by circling a torch.
The brick called Victor 11 signalled for the Astra to stop. The driver did so but, as an officer approached, he accelerated away, headlights on full beam.
Clegg, then 21 and in the army nine months, was in Victor 10A brick, and said the car drove towards them, swerving. He claimed he thought it had hit colleague Private Barry Aindow and, in firing, was acting in self-defence and to defend his colleagues.
But the Paras tried to concoct a bizarre defence. They beat Aindow's leg with a rifle so they could claim the car had hit him, but were undone on the evidence of the policeman and a traveller living nearby. The then Private Clegg was jailed for life in June 1993 for murdering Ms Reilly. He also received a four-year sentence for attempting to wound Peake with intent to cause grievous bodily harm.
Ex RE 1986 till 1997
You all have raised very interesting and significant issues about the alarming situation in Iraq. The heavy-handedness by the US Forces has been detrimental to the good work achieved by the British Forces in the South.
The main problem is that in the Middle East and other muslim countries, the general public are constantly bombarded by TV images of Palestinians being shot dead and their houses being demolished and the excessive tactics by the Israeli Army to neutralise a hostile environment and it does not go down well in these regions. The USA’s moral/military support for Israel, and Britain’s allied support for the USA has had a negative affect. Also, when the Coalition Forces started bombing Iraq, the TV news networks have helped to dramatise the war to such an extent and it has created a tense atmosphere by constantly showing TV images of injured civilians and destruction of buildings which has soured relations between the Coalition Forces and the general public.
The resentment in these regions has been brewing for years and now disillusionment, frustration, and extreme acts of behaviour have set in.
The USA’s international political manoeuvring has been insincere, and there is a sense of distrust in these regions and it is difficult to believe anything the USA propose. I have found that Britain generally (in recent times) has had a more rational and pragmatic approach when dealing in international relations but have paid a heavy price for supporting the USA in this conflict.
Finally, I think it is a tragedy that the UN have failed to function as a rational international institution to persuade USA to be more restrained in its behaviour towards other countries and to solve other conflicts around the world.
May18,
I didn’t understand what your Moroccan friends’s gist was when quoting the Koran.
In the Koran, it also states:
“ to murder and innocent person, it will be as if he has murdered the whole of humanity, and if he has saved one person, he has saved the whole of humanity”.
Therefore, Islam has no place in terrorism, violence and violation of human rights.
Regarding religion, the Korans states:
“ there is no compulsion in religion, to you, your religion, to me mine”.
It doesn’t matter what belief you have, one is not compelled to change their belief. So even if you are not into God it is o.k.
Unfortunately, most muslims tend to have ‘amnesia’ when reading certain sections of the Koran. (I can understand why many people are atheist and they tend to be more sincere individuals than the religious ones).
(Sorry, if I seemed ayatollahesque, perhaps I need to visit the Buddhist temple more often).
P.S
The Shi'tes are quite fanatical, after the revolution in Iran, the mullahs didn't like you wearing white socks to school, they had to be black but then they changed their tune over the years, you can wear multi-coloured socks nowadays.
The main problem is that in the Middle East and other muslim countries, the general public are constantly bombarded by TV images of Palestinians being shot dead and their houses being demolished and the excessive tactics by the Israeli Army to neutralise a hostile environment and it does not go down well in these regions. The USA’s moral/military support for Israel, and Britain’s allied support for the USA has had a negative affect. Also, when the Coalition Forces started bombing Iraq, the TV news networks have helped to dramatise the war to such an extent and it has created a tense atmosphere by constantly showing TV images of injured civilians and destruction of buildings which has soured relations between the Coalition Forces and the general public.
The resentment in these regions has been brewing for years and now disillusionment, frustration, and extreme acts of behaviour have set in.
The USA’s international political manoeuvring has been insincere, and there is a sense of distrust in these regions and it is difficult to believe anything the USA propose. I have found that Britain generally (in recent times) has had a more rational and pragmatic approach when dealing in international relations but have paid a heavy price for supporting the USA in this conflict.
Finally, I think it is a tragedy that the UN have failed to function as a rational international institution to persuade USA to be more restrained in its behaviour towards other countries and to solve other conflicts around the world.
May18,
I didn’t understand what your Moroccan friends’s gist was when quoting the Koran.
In the Koran, it also states:
“ to murder and innocent person, it will be as if he has murdered the whole of humanity, and if he has saved one person, he has saved the whole of humanity”.
Therefore, Islam has no place in terrorism, violence and violation of human rights.
Regarding religion, the Korans states:
“ there is no compulsion in religion, to you, your religion, to me mine”.
It doesn’t matter what belief you have, one is not compelled to change their belief. So even if you are not into God it is o.k.
Unfortunately, most muslims tend to have ‘amnesia’ when reading certain sections of the Koran. (I can understand why many people are atheist and they tend to be more sincere individuals than the religious ones).
(Sorry, if I seemed ayatollahesque, perhaps I need to visit the Buddhist temple more often).
P.S
The Shi'tes are quite fanatical, after the revolution in Iran, the mullahs didn't like you wearing white socks to school, they had to be black but then they changed their tune over the years, you can wear multi-coloured socks nowadays.
marina
i think thats just his signature which got caught on my cutting and pasting.
not justifying his view, whatsoever.
But, while i am sure the soldiers are doing their level best to win trust from the locals i dont believe they see us as liberators at all im afraid
.
I think they see us purely as occupiers, and they think we are there to steal their oil.
It always seems to come back to israel and palestine, many of them seem to think this is all a plot to strengthen israel, and that israel wants to wipe out every arab country.
Read the arabian news, and its astonishing to see the totally different way they view it all. Some of it is blatant propoganda of course. Such as in badhad when the us flag was raised and then the iraqi flag replaced it, the arab news stations printed just the us flag on the statue, with the words "occupiers" or similar as headlines
i think thats just his signature which got caught on my cutting and pasting.
not justifying his view, whatsoever.
But, while i am sure the soldiers are doing their level best to win trust from the locals i dont believe they see us as liberators at all im afraid
.I think they see us purely as occupiers, and they think we are there to steal their oil.
It always seems to come back to israel and palestine, many of them seem to think this is all a plot to strengthen israel, and that israel wants to wipe out every arab country.
Read the arabian news, and its astonishing to see the totally different way they view it all. Some of it is blatant propoganda of course. Such as in badhad when the us flag was raised and then the iraqi flag replaced it, the arab news stations printed just the us flag on the statue, with the words "occupiers" or similar as headlines
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Andy O'Pray
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Marina is correct in her view of the Middle East problems. America's biased support of Israel against the Palestinians does not lend to any sort of trust in the USA within the Middle East.
Radicals do not only exist within the Muslim faith. Does Northern Ireland ring a bell. The religious right in the USA, who try to enforce their views on everyone else. The ironical thing is that those who use religion for their cause are usually the most unreligious people around.
As for terrorism. Ask the guys who served in Palestine, some are on this site, who the terrorists were. It was not the Arabs. I choke everytime I hear the Israeli government denouncing terrorism and their fight against it. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black springs to mind.
Aye - Andy.
Radicals do not only exist within the Muslim faith. Does Northern Ireland ring a bell. The religious right in the USA, who try to enforce their views on everyone else. The ironical thing is that those who use religion for their cause are usually the most unreligious people around.
As for terrorism. Ask the guys who served in Palestine, some are on this site, who the terrorists were. It was not the Arabs. I choke everytime I hear the Israeli government denouncing terrorism and their fight against it. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black springs to mind.
Aye - Andy.
