True, ive got no qualms with that (not the bit about Spurs ).
But thinking that we wage war for the sake of others is wrong, even if those people do get benign effects. Waging war for the sake of a system that can come about peacefully with a little pressure now and then is unnecessary, especially when those nations lack any moral universality.
State-driven war is not charity work. That does not mean that the armed forces do not do good deeds - because they do - but to rely on the state to put things right is more problematic than it is helpful.
I dont want to give the forces any disrespect, but according to your logic the events that the News of the World showed would be viewed by many as British crimes. Many people will go out and join the resistance because of it. The British army is not fighting Sunni extremists - it is fighting Iraqis who want the coalition to leave Iraq.
What do you have in mind anyway? Do you want to join the forces to fight terrorism? Hamas? Israel? Iran? North Korea? China? Burma? Saudi Arabia? Somalia? Zimbabwe? Sudan? Chechnya? Russia? the US??? Would an invasion of Texas be justified to end the death penalty? Should we invade Spain via Gibralter to end Bull fighting? Don't the bulls also deserve rights or dont they count? Should we wage industrial sabotage to protect the environment and save the lives of possibly billlions? The list is endless.
Who are we to say who is civilised or not? Like ive said, I would happily support some forms humanitarian, ecological or environmental intervention but I wouldnt make the mistake of supporting any 'moral crusade'. Morality is low down in the list of world priorities - something that I dont like personally - but its unrealisitc and irrational to think otherwise.
Well, Spurs threw the game away in the last couple of minutes.... Killing does come to mind.
Anyways, where were we.
The recent showings by the Media, NOTW in particular, ...i'm hoping that's a rare occurance, and your right... it's done us no favours whatsoever. Hopefully those involved are prosecuted by means of a fair trial, with the truth and facts a priority in getting justice.
The emphasis of the Media is always a negative one, it would be nice to hear about some of the "good" to come out of this, or atleast the refreshed hope from some of the people who live there.
Ironically, when the war in Iraq first began, I was completely opposed to it.
That was my first hinkling, it contradicted any evidence that was put across to support it.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on what my intentions are, but the bottom line of what I was trying to emphasize on in my last point....
I have spoken to numerous refugees, or people who fled Iraq or parents may have done, and have moved here and the one thing thats always clear.... they'd rather be back home. To say they hated Saddam and his regime was an understatement... the thought that in the future they might be able to return to their homeland safely, or just the hope of it ...has improved their lives, and given them back some of the dignity they have lost.
The Politicans may have used the "Freedom in Iraq" spin having been discredited by the WMD reports of the UN, that is true.
But when you have leaders like Saddam running a militant Dictatorship to that extent, a threat to it's own people and neighbouring countries, where people are desperate to leave for the sake of their lives, I can't help but be drawn to the fact ....the political reasonings might not be moral or ethical, but what could come of this ....your talking about an historical change to a people that have only ever seen pain if they ever chose to not conform. That's a luxury I have, I don't see what is so wrong in other people getting to experience it.
The Death Penalty in Texas isn't relevant, that's "supposedly" judged by forensic evidence, facts and the truth. Not always the case, but it's still alot different to hanging or killing a kid become some medieval biblical type scripture told you to do so.
I wouldn't wage war to install peace, but I don't see any arguments against trying to find the peace that it may bring. That in itself is a contradiction, but that's the way the world is... and that is being realistic.
I grew up in an area where the majority of people, were Muslim.
At 9 years old, I saw my cousin surrounded and beaten by a gang of muslims because of the first War in Iraq that was going on, a militant mindset of the parents and of a strict muslim upbringing were the root cause. It was hard in the way that you'd talk to one, and another would throw rocks and bricks at you for it or for the context of the conversation. In getting to know them later on, and spending time in Mosques I can see how thin the line is, ....and under any regime that strict, there will never be any form of moderation.
The war itself is within Islam, that is the the truth... but I feel strongly, that while this is going on, i'd like to help the moderates as so to speak, as they hold the future to peace and prosperity.
Morality is low down in the list of priorities, your quite right... but it doesn't always have to be that way.
My personal reasons for wanting to join the Military aren't just based on my rhetoric arguments, or political outset at all.
Infact, in the long run they are quite selfish on a personal level, but I can place the emphasis on what good could come of this mess, and i'd be proud to be a part of it.
You have got a good head screwed on thier mate, dont lose it. Good luck with the army if thats what you chose.
However, just bare in mind that thier is only a limit to how much one person can achieve. Dont get frustrated if your ideals do not match those of the government. I have a dislike of (most) politicians myself, but cant critiscise anyone for wanting to join the services. They do a fine job, no matter if the politicians are a bunch of w@#k somethimes.
I agree..... never trust a politician, if the bets are out, always go against them... if your proven wrong, it's a bonus and never long before they slip up. lol
Damolee wrote:It's uncanny how once alot of what I call "sheltered countries" get just a taste of western civilisation they want more? ...perhaps these freedoms, and freedom of choice is part of human nature.
If this wasn't the case, why are more and more people moving to places like Britain everyday?
Because they wish to emulate our wealth doesn't mean they admire our culture or way of life. We now have several million Muslims living within the UK, and a recent opinion pole of self-described 'moderate' Muslims found that 40% of them wanted Sharia law implemented in the UK. Given that, and the recent demonstrations, and the furore over the Danish cartoons, and the fact that in many places Muslim communities try and isolate themselves from the rest of British society, i don' think we can say that Muslims really admire our culture and way of life in preference of their own.
It's a rather comfortable illusion of liberalism, that the whole world secretly wants to be 'like us'. And that if they say they don't, then they're obviously being brainwashed by evil - nasty - tyrants that need to be brought down so 'the people' can share in our glorious enlightenment.
As the situation in Iraq is showing in glaring detail, this is not necessarily the case.
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