To qualify as a "special forces" unit it's mebers must pass the UKSFSC (UK Special Forces Selection Course). To the best of my knowledge only the SAS and SBS do this making them the only special forces the UK has. The RM MLs come close and I believe the pathfinders will too but don't go on the UKSFSC.
This is how the government defines a special force. Hope that helps.
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Who are classed as Special Forces in the UK?
Well, I'm not the world's best internet surfer but so far as I can see the Army website lists SAS and SBS as the only special forces units.
Without taking anything away from those units, don't forget that if Whitehall calls a unit "SF" they have just upped the cost of that unit to the taxpayer. No names, no pack drill but there are a couple of units who have a "special operations role" which means that they had (or so I'm told) SF pay withdrawn in one case and refused in another because "they are not SF soldiers: they simply happen to have an SF role" (in both cases, their only role) Anyone who can explain that without reference to costs savings wins a job at the MoD. In fairness the units in question do not have the all round functions of SAS/SBS but so far as I know they still fall under the aegis of DSF.
Without taking anything away from those units, don't forget that if Whitehall calls a unit "SF" they have just upped the cost of that unit to the taxpayer. No names, no pack drill but there are a couple of units who have a "special operations role" which means that they had (or so I'm told) SF pay withdrawn in one case and refused in another because "they are not SF soldiers: they simply happen to have an SF role" (in both cases, their only role) Anyone who can explain that without reference to costs savings wins a job at the MoD. In fairness the units in question do not have the all round functions of SAS/SBS but so far as I know they still fall under the aegis of DSF.
UK Special Forces
UK Special Forces is an official designation - not to be confused as a descriptive term ie many countries have different meanings of special forces.
UK Special forces = 22 SAS, SBS, 21SAS (reserve),23SAS (reserve), SBS(reserve)
These units come under an independent command and have a STRATEGIC operational role.
Pathfinders and BPT are organic units that perform TACTICAL recon for their respective brigades (16air & 3rd Cdo). Despite having arduous selection procedures, they are not designated special forces (regardless of the pay structure). They can and do however perform support to special forces (as do para reg and RM in general). These units may therefore be described as special forces but are not designated as such.
There are other units that perform difficult "special"roles ie 148bty RA and 14int.
RM and Para Reg would be special forces in both US command structure & description but not UK. They are specialist airborne and amphibious light infantry, and their roles are very similar to Rangers and not so much equiv to 82nd or USMC.
Bgde of Gurkhas has never been special or elite. They are fantastic soldiers but are designated no differently than Royal Scots or Royal Anglian. They do perform far eastern response role and put staff into jungle warfare school.
To conclude, it is also worth noting that the former Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre is now BPT with a ,more varied role ie not just mountain.
The M&AWC was a teaching formation that formed a recon role during ops. Now, not everyone in the BPT is a ML whereas the former M&AWC were all ML. MLs teach within and out of the Brigade, and can opt to go into BPT. The ML course itself is very difficult and although as mentioned is not officially designated as SF, it is probably just as difficult as SAS, SBS. It has more of a narrowed focus though.
UK Special forces = 22 SAS, SBS, 21SAS (reserve),23SAS (reserve), SBS(reserve)
These units come under an independent command and have a STRATEGIC operational role.
Pathfinders and BPT are organic units that perform TACTICAL recon for their respective brigades (16air & 3rd Cdo). Despite having arduous selection procedures, they are not designated special forces (regardless of the pay structure). They can and do however perform support to special forces (as do para reg and RM in general). These units may therefore be described as special forces but are not designated as such.
There are other units that perform difficult "special"roles ie 148bty RA and 14int.
RM and Para Reg would be special forces in both US command structure & description but not UK. They are specialist airborne and amphibious light infantry, and their roles are very similar to Rangers and not so much equiv to 82nd or USMC.
Bgde of Gurkhas has never been special or elite. They are fantastic soldiers but are designated no differently than Royal Scots or Royal Anglian. They do perform far eastern response role and put staff into jungle warfare school.
To conclude, it is also worth noting that the former Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre is now BPT with a ,more varied role ie not just mountain.
The M&AWC was a teaching formation that formed a recon role during ops. Now, not everyone in the BPT is a ML whereas the former M&AWC were all ML. MLs teach within and out of the Brigade, and can opt to go into BPT. The ML course itself is very difficult and although as mentioned is not officially designated as SF, it is probably just as difficult as SAS, SBS. It has more of a narrowed focus though.
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always go commando
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chunky from york
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always go commando
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I would advise any person who is planning to join either the army or RM to absolutley forget about anything special forces related ie SBS/SAS or opportunities with ML, pathfinders c@#t they have a good few (at least 3) solid years of service under their belt. And not even mention it - particularly in training.
It is not until this time has pased that a person fully understands their strengths and weakneses and specific aptitude for the kind of work that special forces do. There is a lot of misinformation out there.
The ability to work on and under the water in a military context demands a specific mindset . There are many individuals who are excellent marines, and have the general aptitude for specilal forces type activity who do not feel comfortable in a martitime environment. The nature of SBS taskings is unsuitable for them.
The only thing I would suggest is that climbing, diving and kayaking are activities that anyone can takeup. Pursuing these sports as a civilian or as a member of the armed services will provide an individual with the answer to a basic question: is this an activity that I am enthusiastic about and to what extent do I feel comfortable in this environment??
If the answer is a definate no - particularly in water related activity - then there is no aptitude for working with a unit that specifcally operates and pushes boundaries in that environment.
Taking this a step down, really enjoying sports like adventure racing, mountain running, triathlon, rogaining, mountaineering, kayaking are the best means of physical and mental preparation you can ever do for RM and Army training.
It is not until this time has pased that a person fully understands their strengths and weakneses and specific aptitude for the kind of work that special forces do. There is a lot of misinformation out there.
The ability to work on and under the water in a military context demands a specific mindset . There are many individuals who are excellent marines, and have the general aptitude for specilal forces type activity who do not feel comfortable in a martitime environment. The nature of SBS taskings is unsuitable for them.
The only thing I would suggest is that climbing, diving and kayaking are activities that anyone can takeup. Pursuing these sports as a civilian or as a member of the armed services will provide an individual with the answer to a basic question: is this an activity that I am enthusiastic about and to what extent do I feel comfortable in this environment??
If the answer is a definate no - particularly in water related activity - then there is no aptitude for working with a unit that specifcally operates and pushes boundaries in that environment.
Taking this a step down, really enjoying sports like adventure racing, mountain running, triathlon, rogaining, mountaineering, kayaking are the best means of physical and mental preparation you can ever do for RM and Army training.
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voodoo sprout
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You say anyone interested in SF or similar shouldn't mention it and other people have said similar things, but I'm wondering why, and how would it work against you, or is it simply the case that until you know yourself you can't really know what you genuinely want? I ask as I'm currently keen on the mountian leader specialisation, but I'm thinking that unless it's going to result in me being shown the door straight away, it would probably be more dishonest (and thus bad) to tell people I didn't have an interest in it.
Fluffy bunnies - Grrrrr!
Hi Voodoo
I guess the point I am trying to make is that - particulary from an initial training point and indeed as a new member of your btn/cdo - you are going to face many physical and mental challenges as a regular marine/soldier. Excelling in these should be your primary goal. Take each step at a time but also try to better yourself through military courses, adventure sports etc.
If you are doing well and have a few years under your belt - by all means have a go at special forces selection - but do so under no illusions and make sure you have meticuously prepared.
It is not flash to see people talk about their special forces ambitions then watch them struggle on small runs or whine when it is cold and wet.
If its in you and you are prepared look at whats required and do the hard yards you will get there. There is no point in talking about it at the early stages of a miliatry career.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that - particulary from an initial training point and indeed as a new member of your btn/cdo - you are going to face many physical and mental challenges as a regular marine/soldier. Excelling in these should be your primary goal. Take each step at a time but also try to better yourself through military courses, adventure sports etc.
If you are doing well and have a few years under your belt - by all means have a go at special forces selection - but do so under no illusions and make sure you have meticuously prepared.
It is not flash to see people talk about their special forces ambitions then watch them struggle on small runs or whine when it is cold and wet.
If its in you and you are prepared look at whats required and do the hard yards you will get there. There is no point in talking about it at the early stages of a miliatry career.
Further to my last post:
You say that you are keen on the ML specialisation.
Are you in RM or are you planning on joining?
Do you climb or ski and do you enjoy being in the mountains?
There is a lot of great ski touring and winter routes to be done - particularly in Scotland.
Even winter walking in the Cairngorms is fun.
Good preparation - fitness, movement across broken terrain and navigation in poor visibility.
Lots of crags throughout Uk and quite a few artificial walls.
Get into it- see if you like it. It will be good for all your RM training.
If its not for you - forget ML.
You say that you are keen on the ML specialisation.
Are you in RM or are you planning on joining?
Do you climb or ski and do you enjoy being in the mountains?
There is a lot of great ski touring and winter routes to be done - particularly in Scotland.
Even winter walking in the Cairngorms is fun.
Good preparation - fitness, movement across broken terrain and navigation in poor visibility.
Lots of crags throughout Uk and quite a few artificial walls.
Get into it- see if you like it. It will be good for all your RM training.
If its not for you - forget ML.
WARNING this post is not my personal opinion:
http://www.specwarnet.com/sf.htm gives the following under thier uk special forces (there are some strange ones in there)
Special Air Service
Special Boat Squadrons
HCF (RN)
5th ABN Pathfinders
47 Squadron SF Flight(RAF)
148th FOB
Para Regiment
(also point to remember the offcial whitehall designation of SF is about politics not operations as such, any unit used in in a specialist role other than those used in logistics or intel. In a wide ranging combat role but used in operations other than conventional combat could be classed as SF. This would suggest that RM and paras are specialist elite infantry units but not nessesarily SF as they are also used in a general infantry role_ My opinion)
P.S RN FAA "junglies are go" RM Istill cant decide
http://www.specwarnet.com/sf.htm gives the following under thier uk special forces (there are some strange ones in there)
Special Air Service
Special Boat Squadrons
HCF (RN)
5th ABN Pathfinders
47 Squadron SF Flight(RAF)
148th FOB
Para Regiment
(also point to remember the offcial whitehall designation of SF is about politics not operations as such, any unit used in in a specialist role other than those used in logistics or intel. In a wide ranging combat role but used in operations other than conventional combat could be classed as SF. This would suggest that RM and paras are specialist elite infantry units but not nessesarily SF as they are also used in a general infantry role_ My opinion)
P.S RN FAA "junglies are go" RM Istill cant decide
"It is very vulgar to talk like a dentist when one isn't a dentist. It produces a false impression."
"There is no sin except stupidity."
"I could'nt help it. I can resist everything except temptation."
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
Oscar Wilde
"There is no sin except stupidity."
"I could'nt help it. I can resist everything except temptation."
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
Oscar Wilde
Well, I can't speak specifically about how it might be seen by the Army or RM, but I think it might be seen as running before you can walk. Like you say, you can't really know what you want before you know yourself (and your capabilities). Also, if you might be seen as taking it for granted that you'll pass recruits (or equivalent): if you're talking to someone who isn't in the mountain leader line himself, he might think you're implying that everything he has struggled to achieve means nothing to you. Not everybody is big enough to shrug this off (though I'll grant you the only booties I've met certainly were). If he's not, and is a position to shaft you, look out!You say anyone interested in SF or similar shouldn't mention it and other people have said similar things, but I'm wondering why, and how would it work against you, or is it simply the case that until you know yourself you can't really know what you genuinely want? I ask as I'm currently keen on the mountian leader specialisation, but I'm thinking that unless it's going to result in me being shown the door straight away, it would probably be more dishonest (and thus bad) to tell people I didn't have an interest in it.
I used to practise as a solicitor around the time I was in the TA and I remember one newly joined trainee (they rotate from one department to another) telling her boss, the head of the Property Department "Well, I know I'm in your department for the next six months but really I want to be in the Corporate Team. That's where the action is."
Top marks for taste, but not for discretion. Her boss said nothing at the time, but saw to it after her property law rotation she did nothing but shipping law for eighteen months. 
Then they sacked her. After that she had little or no chance of getting a corporate law job ever. That poor girl stepped on a metaphorical landmine because she didn't check the ground. Probably it was unfair, but everyone took the view that anyone capable of that sort of error of judgment couldn't really be trusted in scenarios where millions of pounds (and more importantly, her colleagues' careers
) might be at stake. The same logic must apply tenfold if it's lives, not money or jobs, at stake.I'd tend to say that in the forces as well as the law, honesty is very important, but nous is everything.
And if you haven't got nous, just ask the storeman
In any case, good luck!
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voodoo sprout
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theparamancan
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just for clarification (im 99% sure here)
all offical UKSF units come under the command of the director special forces (a brigider in London) and are known as the Special Forces Group
they include
21,22,23 SAS plus attached signals and support units
The SBS (regular and reserve elements)
The Joint NBC regiment- (1st royal Tank regt and one of the RAF regt sqn)
14 Int Det
RAF special forces flights
Im 99% sure thats all.
all offical UKSF units come under the command of the director special forces (a brigider in London) and are known as the Special Forces Group
they include
21,22,23 SAS plus attached signals and support units
The SBS (regular and reserve elements)
The Joint NBC regiment- (1st royal Tank regt and one of the RAF regt sqn)
14 Int Det
RAF special forces flights
Im 99% sure thats all.
