Who are classed as Special Forces in the UK?

[Sully]

What's in a name? A rose by any name would smell as sweet (perhaps not in the case of you-know-who). The ML's I came across were pretty special and just a bit scary - always a touch of the victorian father about them That's a savage course they do. Hats off to them.

[Mutley]

Entry into all UKSF is by selection, which is then followed by training, and training, and training.

To the rest of the world there is little difference between elite forces and special forces, in the UK there is an official difference. During a ratification (codename for defence cuts) the SAS and SBS were placed under command of a single HQ. There were moves afoot to put M&AW Cadre under this HQ, but being uniquely Royal and an integral part of the Corps they were redesignated Bde Patrol Tp and retained under HQRM. However they retained the SF designation.

[Tweedledee]

As far as I know, a good indicator of what makes a unit an SF unit, is whether they receive Special Forces pay or not.
That would mean the SAS, SBS, Brigade Patrol Troop and 14 Intelligence Company, (the 'Det') are definitely considered Special Forces.
I'm not sure about elements of other units, though I suspect the Paratroop Regiments 'Pathfinder' units may also fall under the umbrella..... correct me if I'm wrong.
Technically speaking therefore, a 'normal' Royal Marine or Para would not be considered as Special Forces personnel however, to all intents and purposes people do cosider them as such as they would qualify (through fitness levels, training standards and battle readiness) for almost any SF unit in any other country in the world.
Essentially, we set the standards and unfortunately for 'normal' RM's and Para's they arn't considered as SF units here, but in any other country undoubtedly would be.

[crap_hat]

The special forces in this country consist of: SAS, SBS (part of RM) and Mountain Leader part of RM. This last one, some of you may find hard to believe. BUT in researching whether to join paras or RM i read many-a-leaflet and all kinds of literature persauding me to join RM and Paras. In every piece ML are considered SF. They DO NOT however carry out the same type of jobs as the SAS/SBS. They play a role much like the pathfinders. Thatsaid the Pathfinders are not considered SF, which draws to believe what the RM lit. says is bull.

On the subj. of Pathfinders: I'd like to know more about them. I know they go forward of normal patrols to do recces and create LZ etc. and carry M16 etc. But i know little else about them. Anyone know what you need to be eligible for selection?

Cheers

[Mutley]

I refer you back to my post on 8th Jul. I inadvertently omitted the point about SF pay to which all MLs receive when 'in role'.

Crappie, you really must be packing empty messtins if you believe what you are saying. The ML role is far beyond that of the Pathfinders. The RM do not need to give recce troops fancy names, just to pump them up.

Geneva anyone!

[feathers]

yawn...

CH is this the site? http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/83655

too much to be bothered to read there.... ! Good luck with 21.

[crap_hat]

Indeed it is. Your contribution I'm sure would be welcome as you seem one of the more genuine people here.

Mutley: If you could draw your obviously ignorant mind to my post to which you replied. I know it's hard for people with ADD, but if you note, i was only passing on what i read; and i was in no way saying that the Pathfinders role was far beyond ML...Where you got that from only your psychairtrist will know.

[Shoulderholster]

I was in the forces and my mum thinks I'm special.
Do I qualify for extra pay?.

[Mutley]

Crappie .
Firstly unless you have personal experience and KNOWLEDGE of what your talking about you are rari nantes in gurgite vasto (H thats Virgil). It is clear that you suffer the inadequacy of many of todays youth churned out from our schools one of the lessons clearly omitted from your curriculum was how to read. It is not what you read but how you interpret - it use to be called comprehension!

Your latter post

i was only passing on what i read; and i was in no way saying that the Pathfinders role was far beyond ML...Where you got that from only your psychairtrist will know.

contradicts your previous

In every piece ML are considered SF. They DO NOT however carry out the same type of jobs as the SAS/SBS. They play a role much like the pathfinders. Thatsaid the Pathfinders are not considered SF, which draws to believe what the RM lit. says is bull.

You really have to focus more, as many on this site will know I believe Walter Mitties like yourself deserve to have a cattle prod inserted up their rectum and set to 'high' that at least might release some of the shite out of their brains. Failing that Robs nursey friend has a certain skill.

Oh and by the way I am not quite sure why you should think my spirit has meetings with a chair psy chair trist. But rest assured unlike you I have a certificate to prove my sanity!

Sorry for my tardy response all, but as my recent posts display I have been mellowing out for a few weeks, sampling the old vin under canvas

Bat shit anyone

[El Prez]

It has indeed been a rare time of contemplation. Wondering whether you would tear him a new arse or allow Nurse to do it for you. Anytime old boy, she works shifts! Welcome back.

[canada]

I think it would ease things if you broke units into three catagories:
1 Special Forces
2 Elite
3 Conventional

special forces being the SAS, SBS, 14 INT, ML etc ( no I'm not trying to make an exhaustive list
Elite forces would be the paras RM and the Gurkhas and so on.

As far as the best SF goes my vote would be for the SBS, the rumor mill over here has it that the Canadian SF unit (JTF2) asked the SBS for assistance when they were being organized. though I am sure other units from the UK and US were also used.

[garthy]

you can place SF by a few things but mainly

1 you cant join direct need to do time before you can further yourself for SF

2 they are the best of the best. at the end of the day dont get me wrong the paras and RM are good but no matter what anyone says the are just infatrymen trained to do slightly diffferet things, in the case of paras its to jump (when was the last time they did that operationally) and the marines it is using boats etc etc.

Paras and Marines are not special forces they are just more finally tuned infanteers at the end of the day, sorry to annoy anyone but its true.
At the end of the day if they are SF why dont all the guys go for SBS or SAS well theres your answer.

Also SAS SBS pretty much the same they do the same training pretty much in fact the SBS learn all that the SAS do for land anti terrorism and the SAS also do a lot of Boat specialism but not as much as the SBS whereas the SAS learn other things like HALO and LALO the SBS learn to parachute but not to that extent so basically they are both the best there are they are no better than each other and are equally the best in the world.

The only reason most will say the SAS is better is caue they are more publicised mainly cause the SBS is a lot mor responsible for military missions they are not in the lime light as mush in civilian anti terrorism.

Well cya have fun bye bye

[U0001]

Special Air Service (SAS)
Special Boat Squadron (SBS)
Commando's

[4z5]

The Royal Marines and Paras (Also the Gurkhas) are classed as elite forces, NOT special forces. The Pathfinder Platoon, however, is classed as a special force and receives special forces pay.

I think the best way to define a special force is one that operates independantly of any other units or regiments, operates secretly, and is trained to deal with anything, not just one particular specialisation.

[davo141]

i always thought of the RM and Para to be elite troops, the level down from SF where as SBS, SAS and maybe the Gurkas due to there tight selection requirements and there effiency, repuatation and role would be classed as SF?

This thread is all about opinion in most cases and as posted previously.

OPINIONS ARE LIKE ARSE HOLES...EVERYONES GOT ONE AND THEY ALL STINK!!!

If i pass RM selection and recruit training i would consider my self an Elite infantryman, a Royal Marines Commando, the wording of the title says a lot...where as Chunky would be an EX-Special Forces personell and i would class him as better trained in certain areas and be able to go maybe that bit further due to his title, any body who has passed selection is entiled to there title, looking at the selection requriements for SAS and SBS they are much tougher than any force i have seen inlcuding the US ARMY RANGERS as i was looking on there site a few days back...

I noticed that the SBS one included a 5mile canoe in open sea,30yomp, an assualt exercsise and evasion in the same time...eg. one after another...

Only few people i feel could do this, arguebly many Royal Marines and Paras feel they could but only after extensive extra PT work and preperation would they be able to..gaining the SBS and SAS the title 'Special' and with them using force 'SPECIAL FORCE'

cheers, dave


My opinion, like my arse i am sure will stink but i like it:)