Nods Beret

[Sticky Blue]

full lovats and cap comforter

Who thought that one up? Is the cap comforter even in BR81? I'll have a look in the morning and report back tomorow dressed in No1 ceremonial flip flops, shako, KD shorts, artic socks Pants OG (Mans) and white tunic with medals (minatures of course).

[John_D]

I,m Sorry to disagree Colin, but the cap comforter is as much commando
as the Green Beret, take another look at the commando Memorial,at
Spean Bridge. we wore tham in training,as did Marines before and after,
As for the Blue Beret,the way the corps is changing,the Blue Beret will
become a collectors piece,

Aye

John_D

[ratso]

I agree with all you say John, and that is why I think the loss of the beret on pass out day is wrong. It means the loss of another piece of RM history and pride.
I never during training knew the significance of the blue beret, it was when watching old war films that I came across the fact this was the RM beret, in fact it was the Cockleshell Heros, so I think this is a very important part of tradition and more time should be spent ensuring that the ties remain.
Plus the lovat and cap comforter just looks so damn bad.

[John_D]

Colin
I know we are agreeing with each other as to what is changing,
and that most of our methods are going out of the window, but we must
remember that we are the 3 rd Commando, there was a 1 st
commando, and off the top of my head I think it finished at 12 th.
The Cap comforter was here before the Green Beret. I have a distinct
Feeling that the next thing to change will be the Title "Royal Marine"
In the old days the Royal Marines were noted for their smartness in
Ceremonial Duties, and for our Bands,this day and age there is very little
use for this type of work. The corps was disband once, and came close
again in the early 80,s,It was the Falklands that made people sit up and
realise that this country could not manage without its amphibious force,
and that is the main roll the corps is playing,
The structure of the whole British Forces is changing,so that all
commands will come from one department to one big force,what the
name of this force will be I dont know,

Enough for now

Aye

John_D

[Sticky Blue]

The cap comforter does not appear in BR81! It is not even on the issued list of kit. The headover, which can be made to look 'similar' to the cap comforter, is issued though.
This appears to be one of the many traditions within the Corps that has been going for so long it has become accepted by one and all and therefore is not documented. The cap comforter has always been seen, both in factual film and photograph, as being worn by the serviceman on a covert mission and therefore by implication a Command Raid. I wonder if there are any of the very old who can enlighten us into the wearing of the Cap Comforter... was it the usual headress of the commando and the beret brought in and only used for the more 'formal' occassions?

John_D

In the old days the Royal Marines were noted for their smartness in
Ceremonial Duties, and for our Bands,this day and age there is very little
use for this type of work.

Our, speaking on the band's behalf, saving grace has always been that we perform two roles:
Primary Role: Music
Secondary Role: Medical support to the military

The Band Service is currently undertaking this task in the Gulf on the Argus! The Corps still has a reputation for smartness and as we all know smartness is more than uniform deep. It instils a sense of belonging, corps d'esprit etc etc
Your point about becoming one force is, I am afraid, probably, in my humble oppinion, going to happen at some point in the future. One cohesive military force would be easier to deal with; one rig, same comms, same training followed by other specialist training and one badge! It would be a sad day if it ever happened as a whole mountain of history and tradition would be wiped off the face of the earth.

[John_D]

Sticky
I did not imply the the corps is not still Smart,or that The band still dont play music,what I did imply is that there are not the Ceremonial Duties as there used to be,and as you stated bands men are used in a medical
capacity,but so are all the other regiments,so IF and WHEN there is an
amalamation of of regiments WHO will stay ? and WHO will go?.

Let us be realistic and look at the future from a fincial point of view,
{at the end of the day that is what it is all about} I think that one of the first reiments that could be effected is the Parra,s.When was the last time that there was a mass drop of trrops,by air,? most regiments are Jungle Warfare trained,the Parra,s do the equivelent to us,so this could be one
of the first steps as to "Rapid response" There are a number of Guards regiments that could amalgimate into one unit, all these different regiments cost money to run run and support,and withthe joint forces of Nato,and America,there would be no need for all these regiments,

I Could go on,but I will stop,

Aye

John_D

[Sticky Blue]

Sorry John, I was pointing to the ceremonial part but quoted the whole sentence. There is still the ceremonial but not, as you said, in the amount that there was. There is still Festival of Remembrance, Remembrance Ceremonies all over the UK and world, Lord Mayors Show plus a plethora of other smaller parades UK wide and not forgetting London duties (every 4 years I think) where the Corps is right in front of HRH!
The Army bands are soldiers first, in the majority of regiments, and therefore they don't have the excelence that we do in music. Also our military training standards are well on parr with theirs as we have green lid instructors! Our standards are not as high as the general corps but we are very often leagues above some of the other bands and more expert in the medical field. Exercises are carried out with the brigade very often to hone our skills and to learn the new techniques.

I agrre that there will eventually be a combined military and would hope that the Corps remains at the front of any planners mind!

[John_D]

Hi Sticky
We are in agreement on all subjects,and as you have stated our bands
and musicians are second to none,but at the end of the day the decision
is not ours to make,but I feel sure that commando Brigade will be in the
forefront,in fact I think it will be built around them,but the question as to
the name "Royal Marine" remaining,that is the big question,

Aye
John_D

[owdun]

John,the major factor in any service is it's Espirite,this is usually built on hundreds of years of Regimental history.Some famous line regiments have disappeared sinceWW2 and their people moved into an amalgam of like units.This appears to work well,but who the hell can you mix us with,without creating a complete bollocks?we are unique,and any such move will inevitably lead to a less motivated unit.Not that the Cults who run the MOD would care,their only thought is to how good they look when they save money for their political masters.


Aye Owdun.

[ratso]

Sorry John but I have a view point which unshakable and that is that the wearing of what I class as field headwear with parade uniform, something we were always taught to take pride in, is an afront to all who have gone before.
I remember my pass out and the pride at going from blue to green, sorry if they had made me wear a bloody green sock with my lovats I would have felt that I had not made the change. Now they are handed the green and march off to put it on, taking off the blue we put on the green and made our first salute wearing the beret a moment of true pride. We are taught history throughout well this is history and should not be belittled by assuming that minor detail does not count.
Yes the head sock has its place though I can't believe it has a place in a ceremonial parade. Lets face it, it was introduced as something to wear when the need for the tin hat was not there. General issue and adopted by many as a comfortable form of head dress. The fact the commandos used it was the fact that tin hats were not practical so they got left behind, the beret was not practical because of the brass cap badge.
So it got adopted due to ease of use and the commandos thinking that he had no use for his tin hat, as usual bullet proof. Nothing changes.
Pride is the word we use to descibe RM's who win their green lid, well sorry where is the Pride in being improperly dressed.
The best thing was giving back the blue beret, pretty much your first item of kit from the stores.

[John_D]

Hi Frank
Your right in what you say,but the same as I was saying to Sticky Blue,
The decision is not ours to make, Plus the fact I am only saying what
I think is going to happen,[I may be wrong,I hope so].
You where at the reunion when the new boss thanked all the old
soldiers and said how you have laid down the foundations for the
future of the corps,well its from then that I have been looking into how
the corps is reforming,reading how the government is having trouble
funding the military, It has got to happen for this country to be in the
forefront of any future developments,
As you know the powers that be were on about disbanding us again in
the early 80,s. then the Falklands happened.and this is what changed
their minds. Even now in the RMA it is felt in some quarters that the
corps is trying to distance us from what is going on within the corps.
I dont think it will happen over night, you could be talking the
21st century.

Thats enough for now
LONG LIVE THE CORPS

Aye
John_D

[John_D]

Colin
I have known old timers who completed their training and never served
in brigade,every time they were sent to a new posting it was to another ship,this does not make me or any one else who served in brigade a
better Marine than they were, It is this attitude that is splitting the RMA,
where the Blue Berets will not march with the Greens and visa sersa.

Aye

John_D

[Sticky Blue]

Having done the Spean Bridge memorial as a bugler one year I felt very proud that they told ME to march with them down to the memorial when they told the serving lads from the unit that they had to break ranks!
There was a good mix of blue and green that day. Like it was said earlier in this forum somewhere: It does not matter what colour the beret... it was the same cap badge!
At this point I won't mention that the RM Band Service has two other cap badges as well as the normal Globe & Laurel!!

[JR]

If politicians attempt to demolish the Regimental System they would do well to remember that there is so much that the UK could learn today from the spirit of this great Corps.Alertness and enthusiasm,perfectionism and disipline in the performance of duty,consideration of others and restraint,heroism and self-sacrifice are virtues which are derided in many sections of society and have been temporarily discarded in favour of conceptions which are failing in practice to prove their worth.Here is a history of those who faithfully upheld the values on which this great Corps stood for, and may the Royal Marines go from strengh to strengh blue Beret or Green we all belong to the Family of the greatest Corps in the World I for one count myself lucky to have worn both Blue and Green.Aye JR

[dave barrett]

What a good discussion about three different titfers.

Like most, I was proud to be allowed to wear my blue beret on joining the corps. I was proud to be allowed to wear my cap comforter during Commando training, and I was proud to be presented with my green beret on successful completion of same.

To add another dimension to the discussion, I was also proud to drop my chinstay and wear a white lanyard when I made King's Squad.

You may notice the common thread running through this message.... Pride.

I know it doesn't make me a good christian, but I am proud to have been a Royal Marine, no matter what I was wearing.

My sin of pride doesn't diminish with age. I served in the best armed force in the world. I held my predecessors in awe (and still do), and I believe and trust that my successors will continue to display the same attitude and professionalism that has become the bootneck trade mark, even if they have to wear those silly helmet thingies now adays.

As an aside I love the remark Lord Lovat made about the tin-hat:
"An antiquated piece of military impedimenta with no place in modern warfare"

Regards,
Dave B
P.S. Yes I do know that Shimmy Lovat was wounded in the head in Normandy!!!