How I agree with your sentiments about the dumbing-down of this once-hallowed forum.
Not that I ever make any stupid, inaccurate statements, you understand.
Maverick,
What were these instances of unarmed IRA men being shot - when they were known to be unarmed? We hear of a fair few occasions of our troops opening fire and ending up in court charged with murder. Remember the para corporal who was banged up - until eventually released after some years following vigorous campaigning?
Are you even reading my posts? If you are going to try and accuse me of ruining this forum then at least read what I'm writing before you jump on the bandwagon.
Here goes;
My point is about double standards on the part of both the IRA and the British. Its not an attempt to glorify the IRA or to condone this shooting of innocent people.
1.) Do you think that an IRA sniper shooting a British soldier is murder?
- if yes, then do you consider a soldier shooting an IRA player murder? If you don't then you are a hypocrite.
2.) Do you think that an IRA bomb blowing up a British convoy is a terrorist act?
- if yes, do you think that the RAF dropping a bomb on a civilian target in Iraq is a terrorist act? If you don't then you are a hypocrite.
And its the same case for any IRA player. If he thinks its acceptable for him to shoot an unarmed soldier in a pub, but reserves the right to press charges when an IRA man is shot in suspicious circumstances then..he too is a hypocrite.
I'm glad I cleared that up!
Don't be too hard on me guys - you got the wrong end of the stick!
Maverick...
September 22nd 1989 0826hrs, Deal, Kent. The Staff band of the Royal Marines School of Music coffee boat and rest area. A bomb was placed behind a sofa in this area. 4ib of Semtex wiped out 11 of my friends (10 fairly instantly and one a few days later) and injured a lot more. The bastards that planted this device knew that we were unarmed and did not have any weapons in the vicinity... besides that they were long gone before the bomb went off.
My question to you...
British soldiers have never been murdered by the IRA
Do you still stand by your statement above?
There are a million miles of difference between a succesful military operation and a terrorist attack... Like the others have said... check your facts.
Drums beating, colours flying and bayonets fixed...
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When a war is declared,the gloves come off,and all is fair. When dealing with terrorist scum, who wear no uniform to identify them as such, the politicians change the rules.The troops are made to operate within the rule of law,one hand tied behind their backs, whilst the scum are allowed to murder at will, and claim the sanctuary of civilised law when caught. All terrorist scum should be shot dead when caught and let lay in the gutter where they belong. The likes of Maverick and his student mates, have always been idealistic fools, entry to the real world usually changes their opinions.
Murder=The act of killing a human being with premeditated malice.
British troops were not here with the intention of killing members of the IRA but to preserve the peace and safety of the Northern Irish people. Members of the IRA on the other hand had the intentions of killing the British troops and these attacks were premeditated- do you think the event described by stick blue just happened? That was planned carefully, probably for months and the IRA hated the presence of the British troops so that makes it murder as it was premeditated maliciously. However when a British troop killed an IRA member it could have been for one of two reasons-
1) The IRA opened fire on the British troops and one of the IRA was killed in the ensuing firefight- self-defence not premeditated malicious killing therefore not murder
2)In an operation to take out a top man of the IRA- premeditated yes but in the interest of the safety of me and my 1.4 million fellow Northern Irish people- call it murder if you will but if you lived here you would thank the British troops for it.
As for the SAS ambush on the IRA at that police station- bloody good job on the part of the SAS, they were in and out in a matter of minutes (an eyewitness told me) Watch what you say maverick, people on this forum have lost friends and relatives to the IRA and they may not take too kindly to you suggesting they were not murdered. My uncle had 2 bombs put under his car by the IRA. Luckily both fell off but if he was killed by one of them I would have called it murder.
you gotta search within you, you gotta find that inner strength, and just pull that shit out of you, and get that motivation to not give up, and not be a quitter no matter how bad you wanna fall flat on your face
The purpose of armed troops in situations like NI is to establish a safe environment for the people to live in. Once the situation is stable and the people are free from persecution the troops move out and the province is left to govern itself as it sees fit.
The problem is the factions don't want peace, the factions business is based on anarchy. A terrorist group is a business like any other, a protection racket if you like. If peace broke out where would all the money come from to feed and clothe them and their families. Next time you see a documentary on the subject, look at the cars they drive, the lifestyles they lead, it's all about money.
So there you are, I've said it, the king has got no clothes on. We all know it's true, you should learn it as well.
You portray these people as freedom fighters, they are not, they are no better than the gangland thugs found in any big city.
Hello I'm a student (ex now, just finished) and I would like to point out that we are not all "dickheads"! I'm fully with the soldiers and marines in this one, and most others I think! I think I know why you are thinking in a rather warped way mav but your arguments to this point have multiple holes in and are for my liking rather simplistic. I am not going to pick them apart because this is not meant as a personal attack on you, we are not Americans we are entitled to different opinions. However I would ask that you read back through what you have written and just think a bit harder about it.
Maverick wrote:This is no disrespect to the brave soldiers who served in NI, or the pilots who flew in the Gulf.
However, every nation has its dark horses and Britain is no exception.
My view on NI is that the IRA were as legitimate an army as that of the UK. They were volunteers doing unpaid and dangerous work for a cause that they believed in. The British soldiers were volunteers there to serve the UK Government. No one wants to see young men killed but when you fight in a war you have to expect that you will be shot at - even if your not ready or on your lunch break.
I think its a sad day when anyone dies but war is war. The IRA committed some dispicable attrocities which cannot be condoned. However, I'm sure that there are many families in Iraq who could tell you a thing or two about bombs through roofs.
Thats not to say that the Gulf wars weren't necessary. It just shows that things happen in wars that are just as bad as anything that the IRA ever did.
what a load of bollocks, the only situation where killing soldiers could be justified is when they are part of an ILLEGAL occupation army. NI is part of the UK through the principle of consent and is recognised as such by the UN. There is no UN resolution declaring NI to be under illegal occupation so the IRA dont have a case. Its not justified just because a bunch of Catholics say so. At the end of the day they're minority separatists thats all they are. So the "hitting military targets" argument isnt going to work here mate, in Lebanon or the West Bank or somewhere maybe yeah.
Also there is no moral equivalence between unintended civilian casualties from an air strike and the deliberate killing of civilians by IRA bombs so that argument aint valid either.
It's a different viewpoint, that's all it is. One which I don't particularly agree with, although it merits a considered reply - this is a discussion forum after all. Maverick seems to be the new heretic. I'm dead against 'Balkanising' any argument. Those of you who have simply posted abuse based on Maverick being 'one of those' should grow up. Yes, I have been a student and I'm still a bit of an idealist so my views are not worth a w@#k on here so I'll spare you.
Now, I think I should f@#k off. Enjoy your ranting.
I think some people need to start thinking for themselves and stop believing every piece of UK propoganda that they read in the papers.
The UK Government tries to hide behind the high moral ground, but the British are responsible for so many deaths of innocent Irishmen for hundreds of years.
Its only been the brave actions of the IRA that have brought about change in NI. The people who call them scum aren't fit to lace the boots of people like Bobby Sands or Michael Collins.
Some fools believe that only a soveriegn army is a legitimate one! What load of crap! Its only the so called 'terrorist' armies that have any legitimacy.
These people fight for a cause. Not because they want a career and to see the world.
OK, so IRA have killed civillians. Have any of you 'experts' heard of the 'black and tans'? Or 'Bloody Sunday' or the carpet bombing of civilian towns in Germany?
The British aren't peacekeepers. They are there to keep the status quo which is an illegal occupation of a peaceful country.
And there's no point replying. Your comments won't be read by me because I'm an illiterate chimp who is not worthy of being in your company. This forum must have had quite enough of me so I'll climb back into my tin like the lowlife I am. I lack the intellect to get into discussions with you.
And there's no point replying. Your comments won't be read by me. I've had quite enough of this forum. You people lack the intellect to get into discussions with me.
Arrogant bast**d.
I don't think you are looking for discussion Maverick, you seem to prefer taking some perverse pleasure in expressing views the majority of the forum find offensive.
