Hand to hand combat ???

[jonboy]

Obviously Ninjutsu is the form that the old ninja's use (i'am no expert but that seems right). Ninja's back in jap history were theifs and thought of as scum by the public, is this why they use such a brutal no noncence approach to fighting so they can make quick exits?
I have not done any martial arts but the most effective looks like kick boxing to me.

[dimond]

Factors
Range
Assessment
method
Execution

factors. how ur dressed, terrain, witnesses. etc
range, the further away the threat the more time to either fight or flight
assessment, opponent size, build, body language., decision time are u gona do this or back away
method, how r u gona take the opp down, blow to knee, head, throat etc
execution, says it all this is the hardest part. kick, punch, takedown etc, etc

remember size,speed and retaining the initiative thats what counts. u need to have at least 2 of these if u lack in one depart ment example size.
make up for it in speed and initiative strike first and strike fast.

most martial arts teach u moves that dont take in to account distance,speed,timeing,balance,power etc so they only work against an idiot who moves at half speed


attack is the best means of defence, a good martial arts has an emphasis on attack, there should never be any blocks just counters and breaks,

william ewatt fairlain a royal marine who joined the shanghai police was the founder of CQB, he created the self defence course as well as the first killing house and knife fighting

[oban3]

i think most people forget that most martial arts are just styles or forms - taking this into account you can see why some are so varied. like taekwondo, mostly high kicking or fancy ones anyway or akikdo (spelt wrong like most other posts) which does concerntrate on using the oppenents power against them.

but with all these styles it gives you too many options so by the time you have thought of a move where you snap the guys arm in 3 different places when he tries to grab your neck, he has already got ya.

i'm not saying any martial arts is good or bad but since i have had the time to learn serveral forms i have found the most basic (BOXING / THAI BOXING) is the most effective. kick boxing is ok but if you can do thai boxing much more reccomended.

ANYWAYS the main point i'm trying to say is that something really basic like smacking a guy in the throat or whatever is much better than learning to grab his hand in a certain way in order to make him fall over, because at the end of the day fancy moves like good old steven segal shows look good but are only real 100% easy and effective when you have learnt it for 10 odd years and truely perfected it. Whereas boxing / thai boxing your straight in there with no F*****g about. because in a real life situation u need to be able to respond instantly. sorry for the really long post but i hope it helped.....

[Chester]

but with all these styles it gives you too many options so by the time you have thought of a move where you snap the guys arm in 3 different places when he tries to grab your neck, he has already got ya.

I'd agree if you were talking about Judo but disagree if you were talking about say Jujitsu or Ninjutsu etc, you need to have knowledge and experience of a martial art that involves grappling and locks etc. to understand.

You may not immediately try to get someone in a particular lock if attacked, what if they were a bodybuilder or someone a foot taller and twice as strong ?

You'd either have to get them off balance first before applying a lock, a quick strike any of the sensitive points etc. Or just strike hard to subdue the attacker and make your exit.

Either way, it usually comes down to instinct and the way you have trained for the situation of being attacked. It doesn't come down to thinking "Right, he's throwing a punch, if I catch his fist, I can twist it around into a half nelson" - it doesn't work that way.

[= Jay =]

Obviously Ninjutsu is the form that the old ninja's use (i'am no expert but that seems right). Ninja's back in jap history were theifs and thought of as scum by the public, is this why they use such a brutal no noncence approach to fighting so they can make quick exits?
I have not done any martial arts but the most effective looks like kick boxing to me.

Ninja's were actually Bodyguards and Assassins.....The Public Didnt like them, cus if you were visited by one, you're normally dead...

[Mystic_Gohan]

Regardless of training i think i'd still prefer to say WELL clear of H2H. My only experience of boxing thou was windmilling, which didnt teach style (those who boxed properly failed it ), but i thought it taught controlled agression, which is important in close quarters. Ill just leave that sort of stuff to the 'ard buggers, ill be comfortably a mile a way with a rifle, or AS90 battery or sommat....

[para_lee]

Well, I am an experienced martial artist, I study the chinese art of wing chun gung fu, there is no fancy bollox in this art there are no kicks higher than waist height and no bloody back flips or any shit like that! It is straight to point uses econmy of motion theories and simultaneous attack and defense techniques.
Everything goes in Wing Chun, hair pulling, biting, eye jabs etc its no sport but when it comes to self defense few styles come close in my opinion. The only thing it lacks is groundwork so to compensate many wing chun practioners learn some ju-jitsu.

Just thought I'd advertise my style, go on google and do a search for "wing chun" there are many sites with good clips it kicks ass!!

[Chester]

there is no fancy bollox in this art there are no kicks higher than waist height and no bloody back flips or any shit like that

If I was to choice another martial art, it would be Wing Chun - Like you said, no fancy bollox - No spinning backfist and all the shite to go with it. 'Side on' kicks seen in Karate, other styles of Kung Fu, Tae-Kwon-Do etc are not natural movements but distortions of the body.

Don't get me wrong, anything is better than nothing - but I personally prefer natural posture and movement.

[Guest]

the military value of all these Oriental martial arts are of NO use in real life and wont help you in a street fight or on the battlefield. Karate, Kung Fu etc all rely on fine motor skills that you lose under combat stress.

Whats most effective are modern variants of the tried and tested WW2 fighting systems such as Defendu which was developed by the legendary Captain William Fairbairn, who trained the Commandos and SOE in close quarters combat during WW2.

iv been doing Defendu for years, entirely self taught, using just a few old WW2 manuals. iv been in a few fights since then and believe me those techniques work. If you know just a few good moves you can take on anyone, thats all you need.


heres a good link:

www.gutterfighting.org

check out the books especially, saves u buying them!

[always go commando]

Don’t like to be so abrupt but anyone who says that martial arts are of no use in a street fight has obviously never done a martial art. They improve everything, your ability to take a punch is much higher and your ability to deliver a punch or a kick is multiplied by ten. They improve hand eye coordination and your ability to know what your opponent is about to do by watching their shoulders and hips. However the majority of martial arts these days are no longer martial arts they are combat sports. you are taught to fight someone who use a similar style to you. but this doesn't matter, if a guy come up to you in the street and starts trying to hit you and you kick him in the face without him even seeing it coming your gonna look pretty damn cool and your gonna get the girl.

[always go commando]

But if you want to win a fight fast and with as little dignity as possible i would suggest windmilling in, knee to the groin, elbow drop to the back of the head then stamp on thier face a few times (only to be done if they have a weapon. )

[PHIL]

if a guy come up to you in the street and starts trying to hit you and you kick him in the face without him even seeing it coming your gonna look pretty damn cool and your gonna get the girl.

I was a Black belt 1st dan instructor in Goju-ryu karate when I was 18, I also trained in JKD(Bruce Lee's art) and weapons training, plus many others like Wing Chun, Shooto(grappling). I have met I few of Bruce Lee's students around the country in seminars.
I have trained kids 4-16,adults 16-62 and even Police CID.

Kicking people in the face in a standing position DOES NOT WORK Its more like "your gonna look pretty stupid if he catches your foot and your not gonna get the girl" If I had a penny for every person that joined martial arts hoping in 12 weeks to 'kick people's heads off with just one leg' I'd be rich.

Best thing to do is grab his nuts and attempt to pull them off, once succeeded you then fill him "in his already open mouth" with a knuckle butty if problem persists and gets nasty... i.e. on the floor, then I suggest bite, gouge, claw, do a tyson go for vital parts (nuts again,throat,eyes,nose,mouth,ears) and get the upper hand, if you want to teach the little toe-rag a lesson kick him ONCE square in the chops(try not to) and leg it,(this makes sure he doesn't chase you) before the cops arrive.
When you are of a safe distance phone the ambulance for the poorly chap (DONT leave name and number). Remember its the most basic of "moves" that are the best.

(FOR MY BOTTOM ONLY) I do not condone fighting or violence, but only as a last resort, I must ask you not to use this method of fighting ONLY to defend yourself. It is best to talk your way out or run away, I do not want your blood on my hands or yourself charged for manslaughter. Do not kid yourself it is easy to kill someone. I used to tell my students this because they are young, and so is 14-21! thank you.

P.S If you are going to use Aikido then its best not to fight but to defuse the situation by not fighting, this form of "fighting" is Aikido in its highest form. Refer to the 'Art of Fighting without Fighting'

PHIL - Awaiting reply.

[always go commando]

Phil, right as someone who knows something about martial you will probably know that TKD (my chosen martial art, well the only one available) teaches fancy kicks and not much upper bodywork. I’m pretty sure I can kick someone in the face from a standing position, I’d rip my groin in half but I could do it without them catching my foot. To a normal guy on the streets a high kick is one of the least expected moves ever. But as I said in one of my previous fights, if you have to fight style basically goes out the window and if the opponent is a lot bigger than you so does control. not that I fight but I am a keen observer of human behaviour.

Also before anyone comes back with a comment about the lack of effectiveness in TKD, I’ve heard them all before. And I know about the amount of 22 year olds who are Masters. And the fact that big kick leave you body open to attack. I did it because it was the only martial art available in my area.

I think I have read this, does it go on about how to avoid a fight by all mean then in the final section its says that if you are in a position where you have to fight, be brutal e.g. punches to the temple, solar plexus etc. it was a good read.

I've done quite a lot of reaserch into JKD as i wanted to take it up a few years back, it looks quite effective. the whole sticky hands thing looks funny though.

[PHIL]

Phil, right as someone who knows something about martial you will probably know that TKD (my chosen martial art, well the only one available) teaches fancy kicks and not much upper bodywork. I’m pretty sure I can kick someone in the face from a standing position, I’d rip my groin in half but I could do it without them catching my foot.

As you kick higher your speed and power decreases, the kick probably wouldn't even leave a mark.... I cannot see any kick of power that would be quicker to get to his face than his already face-height hands. I would definitely reconsider your chosen art for self-defence as TKD is no where near effective on the street, I respect martial arts but as TKD goes it is nothing more than a tournament sport and aerobics.
K.I.S.S (Keep It Short and Simple)

To a normal guy on the streets a high kick is one of the least expected moves ever.

You'd probably be right there, but there is no 'normal guy on the streets'.
Some of the best fighters in the world are Muay Thai kickboxers they are quick and powerful and able to take a good beating. A guy from America tried to prove the Thai's wrong, he came up against someone of his own experience and titles. It was 20 seconds in and he got annihilated and pretty beat-up, similar people have challenged the thai's stating that karate and TKD and others where the best. Little to the thai's surprise they all left very beaten.

So the point is, to defend yourself take up semi-contact sports like kickboxing or boxing. JKD (jeet kun do(e) is good because they deal with all styles including the aggressive street fighter, Wing chun is good they have their own form of 'sticky hands' called Who bud (spelling?) where you perfect your trapping by 'feeling' you partners movements and force trying to sense the next move. Its all good if you want a 'hands-on' approach to martial arts. I have never fancied ninjitsu but I have taken moves out to use in class, there is a lot of fancy stuff in ninjitsu but there is a little bit of good stuff.

For selecting a martial art I'll leave it up to you. If you want to go around with the thoughts of being able to kick an attacker in the head that's fine. I sense you're a bit young and haven't been in many fights before, in theory its good, you think it will work, in practice its a different story. When you come up against a guy who wants to rip you head off he's going to be waiting for the first move a pray you do not try this 'kick in the head'... he'll grab your leg or push it away and then hes in your space, you'll be butted in punched and that's not very nice.

P.S Leave the acrobatics for the actors in the kung-fu films, the last person to kick me above the waist got a sharp kick to the bollox, he dropped to the floor in agony, he lashed out with his hands, I stamped on his head... fight over. I walked off and phoned a ambulance for him. No fancy stuff, no punches even, just good defense work.

P.S.S For the record, boxer's punches are on average twice the force than other martial arts, because of the predominately punching sport.

PHIL

[lew]

Ok this is now a thread of how best to beat the shit out of someone in a drunken brawl. And if that’s the case Phil is right. Short and simple moves will work best, kick him in the bollox hit him in the throat, elbows knees are also effective and you can get in nice and close to really do some abdominal damage, or you could always do the right thing and walk away after you've stopped him from being able to hurt you anymore



lew