Share This Page:

  

Battlefields

General information on Military History.
Jason The Argonaut
Member
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Sat 24 May, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: London, England
Contact:

Post by Jason The Argonaut »

Battle of the Somme 1916
The Battle of the Somme was the largest all out offensive planned by the British against the German Army up to this point in First World War. The mastermind of the offensive was Lt.. Gen sir Douglas Haig, who had previously been in command of the B.E.F. 1st Corps and had recently been promoted to commader of all British forces on the western front. The main responsibility of the offensive fell to the the 4th Army under Gen. Sir Henry Rawlinson.

Haig's plan called for a massive artillery barrage that was to knock out all German resistance along an 18 mile long section of the front. He employed the use of 1,500 British guns backed by almost the same amount of French artillery. As the barrage commenced, British infantry would flood into the front line trenches in preparation to advance on the broken German front. The barrage was set to begin on the June 24, 1916. Following the taking of the German lines, the British would then sweep through to Cambrai and Douai, breaking the German line in two.

The massive barrage began on schedual at pounded the German lines for seven days non stop. However, the British lacked high explosive shells in their arsenal at the time and the concussion shells used did little damage to the German trenches and barbed wire tangles which went unnoticed by the British high command. The Germans remained in their dug outs for the duration of the barrage, quite safe from the artillery.

At 7:00 AM on July 1st, zero hour, the barrage lifted and the infantry were ordered over the top. The British were confident that the barrage had all but wiped out the German defenders and that they would find only empty trenches across no man's land. The British units, most of them formed from Kitchner's Army, advanced in close order, bayonets fixed, towards the German lines. As the first units of the B.E.F. got into the middle of no man's land, German machine gun nests sprung up to meet them.

The British idea of a quick victory faded quickly as regiment after regiment fell before the German machine guns. Soon the German artillery joined in the attack. Many British regiments were killed still at their starting points, never making it out of their trenches. The 1st Lancashire Fusiliers and several other regiments from the 29th Division, were pinned down in a sunken road halfway to the German lines and were subsequently shot to pieces by the German machine guns. Only a handful of British soldiers managed to actually make it to the barbed wire tangles and even fewer to the German front line itself. By the end of the first day, the British had lost 60,000 men on the assault. Among the units decimated during the first day of the battle was the 36th Ulster Division, the 1st Newfoundland Regiment, which had actually made it to the German wire tangles, the 10th Battalion West Yorkshires, which got into the German trenchline and was surrouned and oblitereated, and the 1st Essex Regt.

Gen. Haig was still confident that the battle would succeed as long as the British infantry kept pressure on the Germans despite the mounting losses.The battle rage on for weeks. The French gained small amounts of land on the southern section of the line but the gains overall were minimal. On September 25, the British again tried a large scale assault on the German lines with the same consequences. However, the British had managed to move somewhat in the north allowing them to take Beaumont-Hamel in mid November.

By the end of November, the Somme Front had stabilized. The battle was considered over by November 28 and by this point had claimed 420,000 casualites for the British, 195,000 for the French, and 650,000 for the Germans trying to stop them. Gen. Haig finally gave into pressure from his subordinates and acknowleged the offensive's failure. There would be no significant actions on this front again until late 1917.

The Battle of the Somme, I think is the one if not the most remembered battles of the first world war. Sadly not for a good reason it's remembered because of the casualties suffered by all side's. As you can see above the number of men who fought and died for Britain, Germany and France. Over 1 million men dead at the end, could you image if the British army was taking those kind of casualties today. I know it would take some thing like WW3 to ever see those kind of casualties again, I can't imagine how the public must of felt when they heard how many men had been killed.

I myself have studied allot about history, mostly military history. I've read, watched and visited a number of battles fields in my life. And out of all of them I find the Battle of the Somme, to be the saddest, most bloodiest battle that the British army has fought in. That's the way I feel about it, not saying the rest of the battles that the British has been involved in are any less bloody, but to me the Somme stick's out above all over's.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
User avatar
Tab
Member
Member
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed 16 Apr, 2003 7:09 pm
Location: Southern England
Contact:

Post by Tab »

It took Britain a long time to get it's act together on this, but when you look at the British assault on the Hindenburg line, then it it was classical assault that Germans adopted for their assault on France in the 1940's.
A rolling barrage from the guns, troops moving up behind it with tanks in close support plus close air support. The British assault smashed the Hindenburg line and helped end the first WW.
Jason The Argonaut
Member
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Sat 24 May, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: London, England
Contact:

Post by Jason The Argonaut »

Tab wrote:A rolling barrage from the guns, troops moving up behind it with tanks in close support plus close air support. The British assault smashed the Hindenburg line and helped end the first WW.
Sadly enough the same tactics were used to much greater affect at the start of WW2 as you said. I think that the Germans took the British idea and modernised for the 1940's.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
User avatar
Tab
Member
Member
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed 16 Apr, 2003 7:09 pm
Location: Southern England
Contact:

Post by Tab »

The early part of this thread was about Gallipoli, now the idea was fine but it was considered a side show by the War Office. The General they put in charge for the Commonwealth Forces had only Commanded a desk for years. He had requested a strong support team but this was refused, but once things went wrong the same team as requested was put together but was to late to save the situation. No one in those days was to worried about security and I think nearly the whole world and his wife knew about this forth coming attack, including the Turks. With better planning and equipment it could have so easily a great success and it wasn't a failure on the part of the troops who gave there all to win the Victory.
User avatar
Whitey
Member
Member
Posts: 2651
Joined: Tue 12 Aug, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: Dixie, Well my heart anyway

Post by Whitey »

Galipolli, Mel Gibson was in that one. Did you like the movie?
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
Jason The Argonaut
Member
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Sat 24 May, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: London, England
Contact:

Post by Jason The Argonaut »

Whitey wrote:Galipolli, Mel Gibson was in that one. Did you like the movie?
I myself have not seen the movie, but if Mel Gibson is involved I don't think I will bother. :-? But I have seen a number of documentaries on Galipolli and found them a great source of information.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
harry hackedoff
Member
Member
Posts: 14415
Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am

Post by harry hackedoff »

The Somme was only one battle in a war of many battles. Paschendale, Vimy Ridge, Ypres and on and on. Hague was the Tosser amongst World Class Tossers. It was surely the Death of a Generation. Lions led by Donkeys, Aye.

Heinz Guderian and Irwin Rommel read a book by a British Infantry Captain, name of Basil Liddel-Hart.
Written in the inter-war years, he expounded the view that tanks are a weapon of exploitation(as opposed to mobile armoured arty pieces) but on their own are vulnerable. They need two things to make their exploitations succesful. Organic Infantry and rapid follow-on breakouts through the gap in the enemy defences that they create. Guderian and Rommel liked the idea( particularly Rommel) and the doctrine that became known as Blitzkreig was born.
Herman knew it as "PULK" i.e. Panzer Und Land Kraftwaggon( tanks and lorries) For the first few times it was used it was extremely succesful. The Panzers would punch a hole, supported by Panzer Grenadiers and the rest of the Wermahct drove through the gap.The push into France was so rapid that the Panzer commanders drove off the military maps they were issued with, and used the Michelin Guide.
It was new, it was daring and it worked, but it wasn`t Herman`s idea. It had enourmous weaknesses which were not aparent in 1940 to the BEF. Ivan developed tactics to defeat the initial push, usually by letting the attackers through and then slamming the door, so limited support infantry and no follow-on troops got through. It was very demanding for the remfs, they had to match the speed of the advance with the logistics chain or the advance would grind to a very vulnerable halt. No POL, no bullets, no beans. Sexy units got all the good kit, the remfs got horse-drawn carts and the image of a mechanised German Army rolling over all before it, was the result of the propaganda machine. That most people still believe it is testimony to how effective they were. Most of the German Army walked alongside horse-drawn vehicles.

Ref Galippoli. Royal was, once again, "First in, last out" He took part in raids against Turkish forts before the landings, and was the last to leave. Aussie Major Quin, V.C. watched two Btns, RM Div, attack a hill in the Monash valley,"It was the bravest thing I have ever seen", he said.
It`s all on the web, use Google.

Ref Liddel-Hart, it`s years since I read any of that shit ( for my Oberfeldwebel to Haubsturmfuerer exams)but last I heard his book is still in print, if not get your library to order a copy.
Right. Any questions? No? Well here`s some for you then :P
[url=http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/groupcp.php?g=397][img]http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/images/usergroups/listener.gif[/img][/url]
Jason The Argonaut
Member
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Sat 24 May, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: London, England
Contact:

Post by Jason The Argonaut »

Storming of Ciudad Rodrigo 1812
Wellington began his siege of Ciudad Rodrigo on 8th January 1812, desperate to conclude the business quickly before either Marmont or Dorsenne had the chance to intervene. Although garrisoned by only 2,000 men under the command of General Barrié, Ciudad Rodrigo was well-armed. When held by the Spanish army it had withstood 25 days of siege in the summer of 1810 before General Andrès Herrasti was forced to surrender the town to the French.

Its weakness however lay in the proximity of two hills - the Lesser and Greater Tesons - the crests of which are only 200m and 600m distant from the northern angle of the town's walls. The Tesons were obvious locations for siege artillery batteries, and it was from here that the French had blown a breach through the angle of the walls in 1810. After capturing the town, the French had strengthened its defences by constructing a fort - the Reynaud Redoubt - on the Greater Teson; it would have to be taken quickly if Wellington's siege was to be successful.

On the night of the 8th, and without any preliminary bombardment, ten companies of the Light Division were led by Lt.-Col. John Colborne to within 50m of the Reynaud Redoubt before they were seen. Supported by superbly accurate covering fire, three companies broke into the redoubt by escalade. Within a matter of minutes, the redoubt was captured at a cost of just 25 casualties. Under heavy fire from the town's walls, work was started immediately on the first siege-trench (first parallel). Construction of a second siege-trench (second parallel) leading on to the Lesser Teson began on the night of the 13th/14th.

At around 4.30pm on the 14th, three batteries (27 guns) opened fire from the Greater Teson against the northern angle of the town's walls. Owing to a shortage of lime, the mortar used by the French to repair the walls was of poor quality, and the stonework soon began to disintegrate under the impact of the artillery rounds. On the 18th, a fourth battery on the first parallel entered action, targetting the tower which stood where the main road now enters the town; at dusk, the upper part of the tower collapsed forward. By the 19th, breaches had been made both at the northern angle of the walls (the main breach) and at the site of the tower (the lesser breach). Although the breaches were considered practical, both were steeper than could be considered satisfactory. For Wellington, however, time was at a premium, and he ordered the assault to be made on the evening of the same day.

The main assaults against the two breaches were prefaced by a supporting attack made at the south-west face of the town's walls. Shortly before 7pm, the 2nd Caçadores and the Light Company of the 2/83rd led by Lt.-Col. Bryan O'Toole crossed the Agueda river by the Roman bridge, broke into the castle outworks by escalade and captured the two guns which covered the ground in front of the Puerta de la Colada. With these guns silenced, the 2/5th were able to scale the outer wall using ladders, then clear the French as far as the main breach.


The frontal assault on the main breach was made by the 94th (from Campbell's Brigade) and Mackinnon's Brigade. Having scrambled to the top of the breach under a hail of fire, the head of the column was confronted by an impracticable 5 metre drop onto ground strewn with sharp entanglements. At the same time, grapeshot ripped through the column from two 24-pounder guns mounted either side of the breach and protected by ditches. The only way forward was to take the guns on directly. On the left side of the breach, men of the 1/88th abandoned their muskets to claw their way across the ditch and up to the gun which they took at bayonet-point. Moving through them, the 2/5th gained a foothold on the ramparts. Across the breach, the 1/45th were able to use abandoned planks to cross the ditch and, braving intense fire, succeeded in capturing the second gun. As the defences gave way, the French detonated a large mine directly under the main breach; Maj.-Gen. Henry Mackinnon was amongst those killed by the blast.

At the lesser breach, the Light Division had also broken through, though it was an assault that cost the life of Maj.-Gen. Robert Crauford, fatally wounded at the top of the breach. Elsewhere, the town's defences had been penetrated by detachments under O'Toole and Pack. Resistance rapidly crumbled. The plundering and destruction that followed - regrettable as it was - was largely quelled long before dawn.

British and Portugese casualties from the start of the siege totalled 1,121 killed, wounded and missing of which 562 were accounted for during the storm itself. French casualties totalled around 530 killed or wounded - mostly in the assault - with a further 1,360 unwounded taken prisoner.

I was watching a programme on this battle last night on the History channel. The series is called Sharp's War the programs are based on The Peninsular War. Most of my knowledge about this war is from Sharp the programme. Which is not the best way to learn about the war, but what it did do is give you a insight of how the war was fought.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
User avatar
Tab
Member
Member
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed 16 Apr, 2003 7:09 pm
Location: Southern England
Contact:

Post by Tab »

I must admit that the TV series Sharps War was very well done for a TV series, the costumes, uniforms, and action was all very well done, I must admit that I liked enough to buy the box set of DVDs.
Jason The Argonaut
Member
Member
Posts: 2231
Joined: Sat 24 May, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: London, England
Contact:

Post by Jason The Argonaut »

Tab wrote: I must admit that I liked enough to buy the box set of DVDs.
How many episodes Tab, I can remember watching loads or episodes so there must be a few ?

I recently watched another episode of Sharp's War, on of the battles which they talked about was the battle of Victoria. Wellington and his allies out flanked and out manoeuvre the French, but after all of there hard work the French were allowed to escape. They escaped across the river buy Zadorra, I believe the Spanish or Portuguese were meant to be guarding the bridge buy Zadorra. But for some reason they left the bridge undefined and the french were allowed to escape.

Battle of Vitoria 1813
Wellington's campaign of 1813 saw his combined British-Portugese-Spanish army of 79,000 strike northwards towards Burgos without allowing Joseph's French armies to concentrate. From Burgos, Wellington out-manoeuvred Joseph by wheeling through the mountains to the north. On 19th June, Joseph's combined force of 66,000 began to take up a defensive position west of the town of Vitoria. The French position was enclosed to the south by the Heights of Puebla and to the west and north by the Zadorra river. Surprisingly, none of the bridges spanning the Zadorra were destroyed. Joseph deployed his forces in three parallel lines facing west, the expected direction of attack. The front line was commanded by Gazan, the second by D'Erlon and the third by Reille. Between the French first and second lines stood the Knoll of Arinez from where Joseph exercised command.

Wellington, while having no intention of attempting a direct attack from the west, had to move quickly before Joseph received support from Clausel's approaching army.

The Battle

At 8am on 21st June, Wellington's co-ordinated attack was opened by Hill's 2nd Division, Morillo's division of Spanish infantry and Cadogan's Brigade crossing the Zadorra at Puebla to attack the heights overlooking the French position. Shortly afterwards - and some 15km to the east - Graham's force comprising the 1st and 5th Divisions, Pack's and Bradford's Portugese Brigades and Longa's Spanish Brigade began to press from the north against the road from Vitoria to Bayonne. By noon the road had been cut.

Crucially, Wellington learned late in the morning that the French had left the bridge across the Zadorra at Trespuentes unguarded. Kempt's Brigade was immediately despatched from the Light Division to seize the bridge. Concealed by high ground on the hairpin bend of the Zadorra, the light infantry were able to take the bridge virtually unopposed.

The pressure on the French position now rapidly became unbearable as allied attacks were pressed home from several directions. Picton's 3rd Division - supported by a flanking attack by Kempt's Brigade - stormed over the Zadorra to the east of Trespuentes. From the west, Cole's 4th Division and the rest of Alten's Light Division crossed the Zadorra. Meanwhile, Hill continued to press from the south.

Throughout the afternoon, the French were gradually rolled-up from the west before being finally sent into headlong retreat.

Wellington's casualties from the battle amounted to 5,100. Joseph suffered not only 8,000 casualties but also the loss of virtually all his artillery and transport. Joseph's army was spent as a fighting force.
I fight for my corner and secondly I leave when the pub closes. - Winston Churchill [img]http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/teufel/smilie_vampire.gif[/img]
Post Reply