The IRA And The SAS

[Budgie]

I may be a bit simple but Mavericks last 2 postings on this thread gave him away as far as I am concerned.

His opening post was very good as were the follow ups but as the thread progressed I got the distinct impression that in his eyes The Security Forces were always in the wrong and that the IRA were the guys in shining armour (I may be totally wrong but that is the impression I got). I am all for debate, and there are differing views on this site on a number of subjects, but he became a provo mouthpiece with his 'I salute the IRA' remark and was out to simply wind people up.

I am guessing he was binned because he ignored warnings about the tone of his posts. What started off as a good debating point developed into a slanging match in which neither Maverick or other contributors would change their stance.

When you consider that most of the ex-service people on the site have either served or lost a mate in NI the thread was likely to develop into a personal slanging match and the moderators have stopped that in its tracks.

[Jason The Argonaut]

Mavrick Wrote

British soldiers have never been murdered by the IRA

19 March 1988
Two British soldiers are murded These two soldiers accidentally drive into the funeral procession of Kevin Brady in Andersonstown (he was one of the three IRA victims killed by the Milltown gunman two days earlier.) TV cameras record how the soldiers are dragged from their car, beaten by the crowd, and then shot dead by IRA. The footage is shown around the world.

Well that sounds like murder to me Maverick you dumb f@#k . How could you ignore that BLANTENT FACT, if only you where around to explain your pathetic statement. But maybe its best your not, as no doubt that you would would have came out with more untruthfully and pathetic comments.

[Sully]

Budgie, they haven't stopped it in its tracks as such, they've just removed the dissent. I'm not party to what warnings Maverick may or may not have been given but he seems to me to have been removed on the strength of two posts which were posted almost simultaneously. I don't think he was out to wind people up, I think he was pushed into it

When you consider that most of the ex-service people on the site have either served or lost a mate in NI the thread was likely to develop into a personal slanging match

That's the point I was making - why should it. Where does "my mate was blown up in Omagh and is disabled so I think the provos should be....." (which is actually true - although why I seem to feel the need to share this with you or anyone else on here is beyond me) get us? Nowhere.

I initially joined the forum (in a different incarnation) to get in touch with old mates despite it being a bit of a sad thing to do. I've mostly enjoyed the banter, I like to help potential recruits and I have met some great people but I despair at some of the Salem-like hounding (with no attempt at rational argument) of people whose views are challenging. Sometimes I chip in, and tacitly have my loyalties questioned, sometimes I can't be arsed. I've changed my mind on some issues after reading a discussion, but this is rare - a good indication of the quality of the discussion is how many and there are. Message above a case in point - well intentioned (in my view) but uninformative and abusive. Moderators - what do you think?

Why f**king bother eh?

[joe]

Are you Maverick's dad or something?

That's constructive, what makes you think that? Or are you just jumping on a bandwagon and trying to be funny?

Ligthen up, please

It was intended as a little tongue-in-cheek remark, Sully. I didn't realise it was wrong to do such a thing round here.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying by the way. As I stated in my last post, I was intending to join in on this thread as I thought Mav raised a fair few interesting points, of which I had a differing view. But, he then felt the need to tell the forum participants that they lack the intellect to discuss such things. And then he salutes the IRA.

Also, statements like this...

1.) Do you think that an IRA sniper shooting a British soldier is murder?

- if yes, then do you consider a soldier shooting an IRA player murder? If you don't then you are a hypocrite.

... are inflamatory and overly simplistic. He may be playing devils advocate, but he would have been wise to have stated so before writing things like that.

Joe

[Sully]

Please everyone don't confuse Maverick with Maverick00 - like I've just done. Maverick00 is who I was referring to when I said that his posts are informative - and he comes across as a good egg. Sorry mate This doesn't change my views at all though.

Joe, as for your remark, it struck me as insulting to Tom (who I don't know from Adam). I'll do my best to lighten up. I don't think Maverick had a monopoly on oversimplification and inflamatory.

[Budgie]

Sully mate, I read on another thread that prior to binning anyone the moderators would send them a private warning, then a public one then bin them so I presumed that was what had happened. Also other contibutors to the thread had given him friendly warnings.

I think it is the nature of the beast that when you have been hurt or violated in some way that you will be resentful and all reason and logical thought goes out of the window. It is a rare person indeed who can rise above it. Everybody takes sides in one form or another and it is usually hard to see another point of view.

Like you I have had my views changed put to be truthful it is very rare. Opinions are usually formed by experience and familiarity. It is possible that Maverick was brought up on the readings of Rosetta Sweetman and suchlike with the strains of Patriot Game or Traitors Gate playing in the background. He would then have embedded opinions which would be different to ours as ex-servicemen who served in NI.......which is entirely natural.

The old adage of 'agreeing to disagree' is often spoken but rarely adhered to. It is natural to want to change peoples views to match your own. If that was the case then I think he was on a loser from the onset

[Sully]

Fair point Budgie, I'm just a bit disappointed that he was met with abuse and then binned - I'd like to think that the forum as a whole was better than that. It's not so much what was said as the level of discussion, he didn't just appear on the site with those views (unlike condor), he seemed to make them out of frustration. Perhaps I'm wrong though, perhaps it was a wind up of epic proportions from the start.

I've mellowed in recent years and often agree to disagree - I think that when people (especially politicians, and NI is a case in point) are unwilling or unable to enter into a constructive dialogue then its left up to the soldiers to sort the mess out. Troops in NI were on to a loser from day one with the mixture of genuine public support for and fear of republican terrorists by large sections of the community; protection of the players by civillian laws; and support from our good friends across the Atlantic to name just a few factors.

I'm left feeling like a bit of a traitor for wanting to hear what this lad really believed (on the assumption that it wasn't a wind up) and perhaps being naive enough to want to challenge some of his assumptions in a way he might understand.

[Budgie]

Have a look at the 'Northern Ireland' thread which he also started. I think you will have an idea of what he has to say. I may have been a bit quick at reading between the lines but fair dos to the lad for trying to get a debate started but like I said earlier, on a board full of ex NI vets he was on a loser from the beginning.

[harry hackedoff]

I do not think we made a mistake in removing Maverick. He started with what may have been a genuine topic, but you have seen where it went. That may have been by accident or design, I neither know nor care.
The site conditions are explicit about removing members and I say again, not agreeing with the moderators` viewpoint is NOT a reason. I consider his last couple of posts to be deliberately abusive and inflammatory and that is a reason. Whenever we have had a member removed, we have always considered alternatives. What would you have had us do? Ask him to retract? Tell him not to do it again? We try to do this job as best as we can. Quite frankly, what was once a pleasure is now a chore.
Here are the site conditions, profile.php?mode=register
For further clarification on the role of moderators, scroll to the top of the page and click on ?FAQ

[Sully]

Well, I've stuck my oar in and no doubt earned a place on a few 'sh*tlists'. I'll get back in me box Harry

For the record although I don't agree with you, I think that you and the others do a great job by and large - and it's a thankless task so I'll just say 'thank you' for keeping the thing together. I can criticise, moan and drip with the rest of them (no sh*t Sully ) but always believe in giving credit where its due

[lew]

Where was I when this was going on??? I know someone pointed this out earlier but not all students are idealistic tossers with no idea of what the real world is, so will you please stop using the term student in a derogatory fashion.

I to don’t agree with mav's view's, but they are his own opinion's blinded by documentaries and papers on NI I don’t know but in my IMHO the only people that really know what it was (is) like over there are the people that have either been and spent a considerable amount of time there or the citizens that have seen it all.

Sully has a point that certain members hunt in packs on this forum, but saluting the IRA was wrong...


lew

[Sisyphus]

Sully

Like you I joined to meet up with some old mates. I'm chastened to find I haven't got any (or, at least, any clever enough to find this forum!) So I have to put up with you t***rs instead

A major problem with the Forum is that people seem to think you can engage in a deep debate on highly contentious issues - when all you can really do is express an opinion.

Maverick made the mistake of underestimating the depth of feeling among guys who've been to NI, done their best, and see themsleves getting slagged off for it. He raised a serious issue but lost the plot. (Am I the only 'NI vet' who thinks a united Ireland is an inevitability? After all NI didn't exist before the 1920's.) Must rush, got to get my tin-hat down from the attic

[FIRE]

Yes, I thaught Ulster was part of Ireland before 1921.

[Contractor]

Sisyphus wrote:

Am I the only 'NI vet' who thinks a united Ireland is an inevitability?

Not on your own, I think it will happen unsure of the timescale though, perhaps 2021 could be a significant date.

Hope you don't go too far back into your box Sully old mate - I value your input on here greatly.

[Sully]

Like you I joined to meet up with some old mates. I'm chastened to find I haven't got any (or, at least, any clever enough to find this forum!) So I have to put up with you t***rs instead

I'm not alone then my friend

Contractor, is that a highlighter in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me