Substantive

[Rosie]

Hi

Hope you don't mind my using your forum, but as a writer I need some information on military ranks.
At the moment, I am researching WW2 and have come across the use of the world Substantive when referring to a military rank. Does this mean the rank is permanent? If so, I gather unsubstantive is a temporary rank. If this is the case, if someone has the temporary rank, if they leave the service at this rank - will their discharge papers show the original rank, such as Private, or the non-substantive rank?
Thank you.
Rosie

[MSI64]

Yes Substansive means you are of that actually rank, you also get acting rank this is given if you are going to fill a slot that is above your normal rank.

For instance a Cpl may get his acting Sgt to fill a job normally done by a Sgt.
Hope that makes sense.

Your discharge papers would show your actual rank.

[Rosie]

Thanks for the prompt response, err.... sorry to appear thick - but I am a little confused - (to say the least!) So if someone is an acting corporal at the time of their release - their discharge documents will show them as a private. A Corporal who is an acting Sergeant would be shown as a Corporal on his release. How long does someone have to hold an acting rank before they become Substantive?

[Hyperlithe]

It's sometimes not entirely time-based, for example, I was Acting Sgt (unpaid) for about 3 years, due to the length of my training. I got Acting Sgt (paid) once I completed my OCU and was awarded my brevet, and was made substantive 18 months after that. So in my case it was partly qualification based and partly time based.
I would imagine it varies between trades.

[Rosie]

So you were an Acting Sergent (unpaid) for three years. So I guess, that means that if you had left the army during those years, you would have reverted back to your previous rank. (Hmm seems a little unfair!)

[Hyperlithe]

Technically if I'd left the RAF during that time I'd have reverted back to a civvy, but yes.
Basically in my trade you don't get to be substantive in the rank until you're fully qualified for the job, which makes sense to me!