July been a terrible month for deaths?

[Plymouth_Patriot]

If the Afghan people want peace then why did they allow their country to become a training camp for terrorist to attack the west. You can't expect the west just to sit there and take all these bombs and do nothing about. Now if Islam is looking for a Holy War then it is going the right way about it.

That's a good question and there is unlikely to ever be a full answer to it. Afghanistan is a third world country and a muslim country. It is a country that has been involved in war for a long, long time. We invaded their country for the first time back in the 1830's I think it was. It is a perfect place for terorists to go about guerilla military training and get away with it without generating concern from the government there. As in all thirld world countries basic survival is paramount rather than being concerned with what some of the natives may or may not be up to. The war has not been about Islam & Christianity. That is what the gutter press wants us to believe. It all boils down to the behaviour of America and Israel in the 1980's. The solution to end all this cannot be a war that will last a lifetime as George Bush put it. The more we retalliate the worse it is going to get. Israel and America need to put their hands up and take responsibilty for their murderous behaviour in the past.

[Goose87]

Although the are very strong arguments aginst the invasion of Iraq my personal point of view is that we may have done the right thing. I say the word 'may' because i dont think we will see the full benifit of it for another ten to fifteen years as Iraq hopfully becomes a more sociably stable country.

All the politics and 'the quest for oil' aside its to my understanding that it was a very oppressed country. If the invasion helps the Iraqi people re-astablish a firm base of echinomics and trade then it could be looked at as a necessary 'evil' so to speak.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " - Edmund Burke

[gpw2009]

We alongside The U.S. are the true axis of evil.

What exactly is your point Plymouth_Patriot? What exactly are you patriotic about because it certainly isn't this country by the sounds of things?

195 people have now died in Afganistan alone fighting these w@#k. I will not stand by and let someone say it was becuase we are in the wrong!

Have YOU ever been to Afganistan? Has any Afgan turned to you and said they were not happy us being there? I'm pretty f@#k sure that blokes that have been out there have had men, women and children come up to them and thanked them for being there. Probably the same in Iraq.

If we are so bad, then f@#k off out of here! Your 'debate' i'm sure does not sit well with many on here.

[trfcdan86]

We alongside The U.S. are the true axis of evil.

What exactly is your point Plymouth_Patriot? What exactly are you patriotic about because it certainly isn't this country by the sounds of things?

195 people have now died in Afganistan alone fighting these w@#k. I will not stand by and let someone say it was becuase we are in the wrong!

Have YOU ever been to Afganistan? Has any Afgan turned to you and said they were not happy us being there? I'm pretty f@#k sure that blokes that have been out there have had men, women and children come up to them and thanked them for being there. Probably the same in Iraq.

If we are so bad, then f@#k off out of here! Your 'debate' i'm sure does not sit well with many on here.

Agreed 100%

[Wholley]

I'm going to join this debate as people like PP make me mad.
Spouting spurious and mostly discredited news articles that were typed just to sell newsprint and soft cover books and are more than four years old does not float my boat.
I've heard it all before.
Get a grip and stop parroting,your either young or extremely gullible.
If I were you I'd think twice before you call American politicians "Scum"
Clean your own house first.As you obviously have no idea about Americans or their politics and how we work....Butt out.
You have managed to insult me,my country,plus American and British service people in one fell swoop.
I doubt much support is going to come your way anytime soon from this forum.

Not French are you?

Best,

Homer Simpson.

[owdun]

Go get him,Homer,schools out and the kids are bored.

[Wholley]

schools out and the kids are bored.

owdun,you are quite right.
Maybe I should not have bitten....Too late now.I guess I've overstepped the mark as a mod.I should be dent proof and aloof to all things juvenile...
But then again
Don't hear much from you these days,hows missus owdun and have you seen JR recently?

[owdun]

Paul, Missus fine,me,getting old. Spoke to Jim a couple of weeks back,trouble with his eyes,but still as fiesty as ever.

[Plymouth_Patriot]

We alongside The U.S. are the true axis of evil.

What exactly is your point Plymouth_Patriot? What exactly are you patriotic about because it certainly isn't this country by the sounds of things?

195 people have now died in Afganistan alone fighting these w@#k. I will not stand by and let someone say it was becuase we are in the wrong!

Have YOU ever been to Afganistan? Has any Afgan turned to you and said they were not happy us being there? I'm pretty f@#k sure that blokes that have been out there have had men, women and children come up to them and thanked them for being there. Probably the same in Iraq.

If we are so bad, then f@#k off out of here! Your 'debate' i'm sure does not sit well with many on here.

My point is there is some serious questions being neatly avoidd by the media at large in this country. Of course there will be men, women & children that have and will continue to thank us but there are a great deal more that have developed a deep hatred for this country. No I have not been to Afghanistan, if I were to do so as a visiting Englishman I would be dead by sunrise the next day and I know for a fact that you cannot fail to agree with me on that point. I am here to try and generate some serious discussion. No matter where we live in the world we all want to live in peace so that we grow, live and learn with our families. My intention is not to offend but to open up serious discussion.

[Plymouth_Patriot]

I'm going to join this debate as people like PP make me mad.
Spouting spurious and mostly discredited news articles that were typed just to sell newsprint and soft cover books and are more than four years old does not float my boat.
I've heard it all before.
Get a grip and stop parroting,your either young or extremely gullible.
If I were you I'd think twice before you call American politicians "Scum"
Clean your own house first.As you obviously have no idea about Americans or their politics and how we work....Butt out.
You have managed to insult me,my country,plus American and British service people in one fell swoop.
I doubt much support is going to come your way anytime soon from this forum.

Not French are you?

Best,

Homer Simpson.

You are right I shouldn't have used the word, "scum" to describe who I think is one of the most dangerous men on the planet. I do not intend to insult anyone. We are talking about genocide here, megadeath in Iraq based on lies in my opinion. The impending inquiry on the Iraq war in the UK is going to be held in secret behind closd doors when there should be a full open public inquiry. they have got to much to hide. A soldier convinced me not to join the Royal Marines twenty two years ago when I left school. I read a great deal on the history that he told me to read about. He said that within twenty years the UK would invade other nations when the fossil fuels start to run out. He was right. I am not gullible as I have done an enormous amount of research on the subject. The world is going to become a far, far more dangerous place. I don't expect much support here at all. But the webmaster of the American website 'Iraq Veterans Against War' has many members that he is going to alert them to of my UK website in 10 weeks to generate support for a UK initiative. The dissent is going to grow the more people begin to educate themselves. I like you want to live in a safe world where we can live, grow and learn with our families.

[gpw2009]

My intention is not to offend but to open up serious discussion.

Don't you think you have picked the wrong forum then? As far as I'm aware this forum is for people wishing to join the forces and for ex members to give advice. What other reaction did you expect?

Your 'views' and 'opinions' have, in MY 'opinion' been expressed in poor taste and using old and one sided quotes or extracts. I understand different people have different views, but what do you expect to achieve, or in fact want? For the troops to be pulled out of Afganistan? For us to just stand by and think nothing is happening until someone 'attacks' this country? Or hold public enquires and debates every time action needs to be taken? Talking for hours, days, weeks, months? Sanctions were imposed on Hussein for years and got no where!!

The leaders of this country and the US are 'voted' in and are there to make decisions when the time comes. They did over Iraq and have done over Afganistan. That is their job and we put them there. The people / parties / administrations change over time. So why do you feel that we should pay for possible mistakes in the past? We were at war with Germany for many years, but look at how things are now? Normal civilised people moving forward together. Just because of things that happened many years ago, sometimes longer, these people still feel the need to resort to killing. This is a respone to this, this is a response to that.... please!! They are the problem, not us!

[Plymouth_Patriot]

I expected to get booted out of this forum when I made my second post asking for military veterans to join my website to speak about the war crimes they have experienced perpetrated by our governments. But soldiers are starting to speak out here in the UK wheresas there have been a very high number in the US. You only have to watch the video of Karen Kwiatkowski that left the USAF after she was ordered to manufacture intelligence reports that were read verbatim by George Bush when he addressed the American people. That is essentially pre-meditated first degree murder. She left the USAF as a career military officer in absolute disgust and has has my utmost respect. Joe Glenton, the first soldier in the UK to speak out publicly on a national level in the UK against the Afghanistan war has said that many of his colleagues are beginning to question the morality of this war as they are beginning to understand there is something deeply wrong at work here. And it always goes back to that fundamental question, 'Why are the terrorists doing this.' The answer is because of the murderous behaviour of the USA in the past. Have you read the document 'Rebuilding America's Defences' by the neo-cons. You will see that their plans are being implemeted now. Ray McGovern that used to be a Chief CIA analyst that briefed President Clinton daily on intelligence called the men that wrote the above document the 'Crazies'. Former SAS trooper Ben Griffin is right when he said that the Labour party has to be held to account. I do not wish to offend and I can only apologise if I have. I have recieved a lot of hatred from English people for speaking out and being traitorous but if I do my miniscule part in helping to save lives in the future and help to bring an end to this terrible madness then I will continue to do so. A friend of mine was shot in Afghanistan and we have argued deeply with each other but we have remained friends because we relaised that we had ended up fighting each other when we both want peace but in different ways. He wants to do it by killing any terroists he can and I want peace by seeing the politicians that start wars to be punished by the full force of International law. But that is extremely unlikely to happen but for good men to stand by and do nothing is wrong and I am a good man if you were to know me personally. I spend most of my spare time helping others. I do a lot of good in my local community. And I have extended this to international affairs. I have been up since six am doing more research to arm myself with the facts of what is going on.

[Wholley]

I expected to get booted out of this forum

No-one is going to boot you out just because of your opinions and rather lefty conspiracy theories.
I for one find them rather amusing,so you go ahead you are keeping at least one member entertained

[Tab]

I am surprised that you have not come out with the old adage that it is all being about oil in Afghanistan,

[gpw2009]

II am a good man if you were to know me personally. I spend most of my spare time helping others. I do a lot of good in my local community

This is not an attack on you, just your views my friend.

The harsh truth is, for all the research and reading you do, you will never be able to know exactly what has taken place or said. It's the classic case of two sides to every story.

Do you think we should bomb their embassy for this:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... _Elections

It's wrong and i'm not happy..........