3 CDO BDE to include 1 RIFLES

[davidemmerson]

From 1 April 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines will expand to include 1 RIFLES within its permanent establishment, giving Brigade a fourth combat unit.

1 RIFLES – based in Chepstow - join 3 Commando Brigade as they prepare for operations in Afghanistan. As part of their normal operational cycle 1 RIFLES are currently deployed to Belize conducting Jungle Warfare Training and are expected to return to UK in early April, prior to deploying to Afghanistan.

The transfer of I RIFLES under FLEET command will enhance the defence capability of 3 Commando Brigade by allowing FLEET to provide both a Brigade on standby and simultaneously deploy a unit to other tasks, and represents a continuation of the very close co-operation which Royal Navy and Army already enjoy.

Initial integration into 3 Commando Brigade is expected by the end of April 2008, with full integration, including a specialist amphibious training, by Apr 2010.

Although there is no requirement for 1 RIFLES to become fully Commando trained at unit level, opportunities will become available to individuals to volunteer to undertake the All-Arms Commando Course at the Commando Training Centre, Lympstone.

1 RIFLES is one of 5 light role infantry battalions currently attributed to Small Scale Peace Keeping tasks, which collectively are know as the ‘RIFLES’.

The ‘RIFLES’ have a long history, including links to the great 19th Century General Sir John Moore and the Peninsular Campaign. The historical series, “Sharpe” starring Sean Bean dramatises the antecedents of the RIFLES during this period.

The ‘RIFLES’ were formed in 2005 from an amalgamation of the Royal Green Jackets, The Light Infantry, The Devonshire and Dorset Light Infantry and the The Royal Gloucestershire Berkshire and Wiltshire Light Infantry.

So there you go. Been some threads about "Is it going to happen or not?" and looks like it is.

Although it says it isn't necessary for them to take the AACC (although oppurtunites 'exist') will they wear the commando dagger to symbolise their relationship with 3 Commando Brigade? Hopefully 1 RIFLES will do a good job and I'm sure they won't pull the reputation of the Brigade down. Anyone got an issue with it? Share some thoughts.

David

[themattmeister]

It does hit a bit of a soft spot if you consider you might have a bunch of scran bags telling everyone their commandos just because they have a dagger on their shoulder.

If they can give as good as an account of themselves as 29 and 59 though suppose it won't be a bad thing, they will have to learn to wash though.

My initial emotive response is that I just don't want it to happen.

[Doc]

If they can give as good as an account of themselves as 29 and 59 though suppose it won't be a bad thing, they will have to learn to wash though.

Whats that supposed to mean? Totally different kettle of fish if you ask me.

[Artist]

I am not anti Army. I myself worked closely with various Army units such as 29CDORA, 59CDOENGRSQNRE, The Paras and other units such as "The Prince of Wales Own" during my time in the Royal Marines but this is beyond the pale. Just what is the point of 32 weeks Commando training then?

To my mind they should bin the Fleet Protection Group and reform them as another Cdo unit and let the Rifles do the FPG's job thus solving the problem of manpower shortages within 3 CDOBDERM. It's all part of this Governments plan to mess up a system thats worked since 1664 as far as I can see.

Our Government would like us to follow the lead Canada took a few years ago where everyone wore the same uniform regardless of the job people did. Long story short. It didn't work.

And shoving a Battalion of the Rifles into 3 CDOBDERM isn't going to work to my mind either. They don't even need to do the CDO course for Gods Sake!!

The Army has been shafted bigtime by both this present Government and the previous ones. The regimental system is nearly dead save for the Guards and suchlike! Once upon a time each and every County in the UK had it's own regiment, now these once proud regiments have been wittled down to nought as far as I can see. Gone are the Cheshires, the Norfolks, the Staffs, etc, etc, etc, along with loads of other once proud regiments.

Now it seems it's the turn of the Corps of Royal Marines to be shafted by this Government as well. Give it a few years people and the Royal Marines will be a thing of the past. I can see it now. The Corps of RM/PARA/SAS/OUGHT ELSE!

Traditon......A nasty word to some arsewipes who have never served in the Forces but like to save money at the expense of traditions that in some cases go back well over three hundred of years.

Artist

[themattmeister]

If they can give as good as an account of themselves as 29 and 59 though suppose it won't be a bad thing, they will have to learn to wash though.

Whats that supposed to mean? Totally different kettle of fish if you ask me.

It's supposed to mean that when I have seen 29 and 59 do grav stuff in norway and the himalayas they have had the same ethos as the bootnecks and done just aswell, they don't go to the galley honking and don't walk around looking like a sack of shit.

[alfred_the_great]

To my mind they should bin the Fleet Protection Group and reform them as another Cdo unit and let the Rifles do the FPG's job thus solving the problem of manpower shortages within 3 CDOBDERM. It's all part of this Governments plan to mess up a system thats worked since 1664 as far as I can see.

Artist

You can't; the treaty that governs our use of Trident technology (and Polaris before that) specifies that they will be guarded by "Marines". Frankly, given the recruiting problems the Corps is having, the introduction of 1 RIFLES is a god-send. It allows 3 Cdo Bde to act in a Square manner, much like the introduction of Commando 21 allowed a Cdo to act "square".

As for the black Commando Dagger on an OG background, all of 1 RIFLES will be wearing it, as it 3 Cdo Bde's TRF. Indeed, there are plenty of RM (OR and Officers) who do not wear a dagger; the distinction for the RM is the "Royal Marine Commando" Flash (and despite the gash buzz above, no-one outside of the Corps will wear that, however they may be wearing "Army Commando" or "Royal Navy Commando" flashes...).

[misterpurple]

From what I understand 1 Rifles will be becoming a support battallion, in no way equal to the constituent Commandos 40, 42 and 45. It is for this reason that the Rifles will not need to do AACC. The article I read (some time ago, I must say ) gave the example that 1 Rifles would be given the task of defending an oil refinery, while the RM/Army Commando troops would be more of a spearhead, aggressive force. So amalgamating 1 Rifles does indeed free up Commando trained soldiers for tasks they are better suited for.

Given the current recruiting crisis, it's a better alternative to scrapping a Cdo (or FPG, or 539 Assault Sqn etc.).

[bigdog]

[quote][/quote]From what I understand 1 Rifles will be becoming a support battallion, in no way equal to the constituent Commandos 40, 42 and 45. It is for this reason that the Rifles will not need to do AACC. The article I read (some time ago, I must say ) gave the example that 1 Rifles would be given the task of defending an oil refinery, while the RM/Army Commando troops would be more of a spearhead, aggressive force. So amalgamating 1 Rifles does indeed free up Commando trained soldiers for tasks they are better suited for.


You understand wrong.

[misterpurple]

You understand wrong.

Explain. Or were you just being a clever tw@t?

[bigdog]

The aim is to have all of 1 Rifles commando trained, although not until 2012 or thereabouts. It will compliment the other parts of 3 Commando Brigade and will not just be a "support battalion." The reason for the delay in becoming commando trained is that you cannot simply magic up a battalion of commando trained soldiers, and it will take time to develop especially at senior NCO/ senior Officer level. It takes time to fill the positions although for an experienced Infantry Soldier the AACC is a different prospect to 32 weeks as a recruit. New subbies hoping to join 1 Rifles have been told it will be a requirement to pass the AACC or it will be off to a different Battalion for them. Equally soldiers joining the Battalion as supporting arms have been told that AACC will be a requirement.

I should not worry about the reputation of the Brigade being dragged down. the constituent regiments of the Rifles had a reputation that was just fine.

[Alfa]

This isn't really that much difference to how things usually work, when the Marines have been to Afghanistan before they have had Army Infantry Regiments attached to them, this is just a more permanent arrangement.

I can understand why the Royal Marines don't like the idea however it's not as if they're being re-badged into Marines, they're going to be 1 Rifles not 1 Commando they will keep their own cap badge and beret etc... so it's more like the set up of 16 Air Assault Brigade which includes a Line Infantry regiment as well as the Paras.

[davidemmerson]

I've no idea if he is Commando trained etc but he's got the dagger on.

Maybe in 10 years time the RM will have enough recruits coming through to create a new Commando unit, who knows. I'm no-where near to being in the Royal Marines so I feel I can't comment that much etc but I can see why they've done it.

It could be worse!

[druadan]

He's not Commando trained. To clarify Alf's post above, the black dagger on green square you see there is the 3 Cdo Bde flash, and any personnel (Army, Navy or Bootneck) serving within 3 Cdo Bde wear it.

Commando trained Army ranks used to wear a red dagger on a black triangle to denote their Cdo status (as well as their lid, obviously). However, they have recently adopted a (shit-looking, it has to be said) version of the Royal Marines/Royal Navy Commando flashes worn on the shoulders by Royal Marines/Commando trained RN ranks. Reference my comment about appearance, it just looks pants because instead of being printed in bold letters on two lines like the Bootneck/Navy ones, it's all been squashed onto one line on the same sized flash, making them look a bit pants. But then I don't have to wear them, so what does my opinion matter

Personally I feel a better answer to the above would be to make Commando Logs a fully Cdo trained RLC regt, freeing up the Bootnecks (none of whom want to work at Logs) to make up at least the basis for this fourth Cdo. I have no objection to working with regular Infantry on enduring ops, they've proved themselves very good at what they do. But there's a reason for units with the selection and training of ourselves and the Paras; to water that down must detract from our capabilities, even if they do all get Cdo trained in the long haul. At the end of the day the AACC was designed for attached ranks to do their jobs - be it engineering, med, arty, logistics, whatever - not to make them Bootnecks; there is no doubt it's easier to get your green lid through the All Arms than through 32 weeks graft.

[themattmeister]

Trying to get RLC to step in for logs would be a good idea because practically no one likes being a driver. The downside is that there are probably very people in the RLC who actually have the ambition to do the commando course, most of the ones down South Cerny seem a bit mongish, it probably wouldn't interest them to do the same job for the same pay but with a green beret.

[Artist]

Have since found out about the Yanks insistance that MARINES guard the Nukes so my suggeston ref the FPG is a No No. As Druadan has said why not hand over Logs to the RLC and free the Bootnecks who are in it?

29 and 59 are the dogs bollox at their jobs so I reckon the RLC would take the Cdo Ethos by the throat and do the same job as the Gunners and Engineers do if LogRegt went 100% RLC. As in it would be top notch.

I was in Logs for my troubles yonks ago. Lets just say I would rather have been a member of the Brownies than serve in that unit because it was so bloody boring 99% of the time!

Artist