Camp lympstone

[_chris]

Just another example of why the top brass and politicians have no idea on the proper way to solve a recruitment problem.

If numbers are low then why drop standards to get more people through training? Only negative things can come from it. Recruits will be less respected when joining a troop after passing out, our Marines will be less respected as a whole by the public and recruits will feel cheated if they feel they have had it easier than those who went before them.

Why not simply offer our boys what they deserve; more benefits for trained ranks, a wage they can actually live on and perhaps put a bit more effort into recruitment.

Exactly most people I've spoken to who have been/want to be a marine choose the marines over other arms for the personal challenge of being the best. If they lower standards then whats the point of having the Royal Marine Commandos who'll just effectivly be more infantry. Unless thats the long term objective - to get them to the point where the difference between Commados and ordinary infantryman becomes to little to justify having them - so the goverment can quietly wave them away to the history books?

If I ever do manage to make it through I'ld like to feel I was equal to any other marine in terms of training etc. that I'ld have to put in. Even if I was equal in terms of mindset they would always know that I hadn't had to work as hard to get there and so there'ld be no proof of my ability, they'ld have that doubt all the time.

[Gimpy]

Bang-on mate. Those who opt for the Royals over other branches of the armed forces generally do so because they relish the challenge and RM training is as hard as it gets. Make it easier and you take away the whole point of being a Royal marine.

From what I've read and from listening to former/serving bootnecks talking, the whole brotherhood of the marines depends on the fact that everybody has been through the same experiences and endured the same hardships. Make life easier for the new generations of RM and you undermine all that, and you end up with a divided corps with the "old style" marines who earned their green berets before the changes, and the "new style" who had it a bit easier. What's worse is that if it were to lead to a reduction in the quality of soldier emerging at the end of training, how will this impact when said soldier is in the thick of it?

[Polynikes]

"Bang-on mate. Those who opt for the Royals over other branches of the armed forces generally do so because they relish the challenge and RM training is as hard as it gets. Make it easier and you take away the whole point of being a Royal marine."

Agreed. I actually feel disapointed. There's not much I can add here, as most of it has been said already... But I don't feel as proud as I was before I read this thread about lower standards and less thrashings.

[dwarfy]

One thing you have to remember is that each training team does do things a little differently to the next. The facts are that some troops have things a little easier than others in terms of beastings and priviledges and so forth. What has to stay the same for everyone though, is that each troop regardless has to work damn hard to pass out of training, and i am sure that will not change.

Remember this is in reference to the first two weeks in foundation, things may well change a great deal when they get their little orange tabs taken off. Like i say each Training Team does things a bit different, my troop were thrashed from the very start, we had beastings outside the foundation block everyday, put in stress positions by our lockers nearly every night, and had a course set out for us in the foundation block to 'monkey crawl' and 'duck walk' around when we came of ex first step, having been crash moved and thrashed on that ex.

When we spoke to the next troop behind us, we couldnt believe the luck they were getting, they had barely been touched at all during foundation, and had a very easy first step, they were allowed to go down to the naafi aswell, we werent unless it was for specific things for 'work'.

The next few ex's for my troop continued in the same vain, whilst the other troops appeared to have it a little easier. But things changed and its all swings and roundabouts. I left before phase two, but the lads i kept in contact with, said that almost all the 'bulls***' stopped for my troop after week 15, and the training team from then on were really hoofing. They were almost 'civil' to them in phase two.

But the troops behind though not having it as harsh so early on, seemed to have more beastings and 'bull****' into phase two, where as my old troop were really enjoying themselves. Phase two from what most say does get better for everyone, but it appears my troop had a really good phase two, still bloody hard of course but with the harshness of 'corrective training' early on, i guess they made far less mistakes and were really to grips with the basics, allowing for the 'real stuff' to unfold better.

I just really hope that things arent being made easier on the whole, as it really isnt going to solve anything and ceratinly not recruitment of the 'right' kind. Yes you may get a few more through the gates, but do you really want nods turning up becasue they think RM training has got easier??? NO FECKING WAY!!

As Nigle Foster wrote in his book 'the making of a Royal Marines Commando', its the challenge of RM training that atracts the right calibre of person in the first place, and if you take away that challenge then you take away the desire of those kinds of people to join.

dwarfy

[Gimpy]

I've mentioned this to a bloke I know who was a bootneck back in the mid-60s and he basically said what you said Dwarfy. Back then RT was probably harder than it is now in some ways and maybe easier in others.

The time to really worry is when it gets like how Artist jokingly described with the bedtime stories etc

Why did you leave by the way?

[dwarfy]

Gimpy,

I assume you meant me??

I left as i was in two minds as to whether i should have gone to uni or joined up in the first place. The AFCO leant me in the direction of joining there and then, and i think for me it was the wrong decision at the time.

But in a way im glad i did join and leave as i now know (have for a LONG time) it is without a doubt what i want to do, and i think i have learnt a hell of alot since leaving and matured a great deal. I will now have a degree and i am going to apply for and attempt Officer selection this time around, it is something i never felt confindent to do back then (officer selection), but i think life experience since has changed me alot, and im really up for giving it a good crack.

If that doesnt work out, i will Re-join as a RCT, either with the Regs or the RMR.

Best of luck with your application gimpy, what stage are you at?

dwarfy,

[Gimpy]

I almost joined the Navy as a clearance diver back when I was 19, but jibbed out about 2 weeks before I was due to start down at Raleigh. Like many other foolish young boys, I chose minge over military and then it all went tits up in the end anyway, but I learned a lot from it. Sounds to me like you made your mistakes early on, so now when you go for it you'll know 100% that it's what you want.

My application for RM is virtually non-existent at the moment. I've been to the AFCO a few times for the preliminary talks, forms etc but I'm reluctant to send them off until my knees are better as I buggered them up a couple of months ago and haven't been able to run since. Still working on upper body and can bang out sit-ups and pull-ups, but my press-ups PB is pathetic (35 on a good day) so I need to get my finger out here too.

[fodd]

i feel the same i was 19 when i was in RT now im 22 and rejoining later this year im a lot maturer so it will be a lot better when i rejoin!

[Alfa]

If I ever do manage to make it through I'ld like to feel I was equal to any other marine in terms of training etc. that I'ld have to put in. Even if I was equal in terms of mindset they would always know that I hadn't had to work as hard to get there and so there'ld be no proof of my ability, they'ld have that doubt all the time.

There will be plenty of proof, you may not have it as hard as past generations of Marines during RT but you will certainly have it a lot harder once you go to your unit and are deployed on operations.

If you prove you're dependable in places like Iraq and Afghanistan you're oppos, no matter how tough they had it during RT, will respect you.

Recruits across the board definately have it better during basic training these days but they are conducting some of the toughest operations in probably the worst conditions for decades, so just keep that in mind and don't let anything put you off getting that Green Beret!

[Gimpy]

Good post Alfa

[fodd]

i also remember one of my cpl's from rt talkin to us saying when he was a nod he got absolutely thrashed but was so fazed when he passed out he went on to say that at least nowadays you can take more in on the job! which is the most important thing isnt it!

END RESULT YOU STILL HAVE TO COMPLETE ALL THE COMMANDO TESTS IN THE SAME TIME YOU DID 30 YRS AGO!

i was just quite concerned from what my oppos and my mate currently in RT were saying!

[CptStabbo]

Evening,

On the one hand there has to be a few sickeners chucked in to see how lads react when under pressure and totally hooped, but it could be argued that these courses, be they P-Coy, All Arms, Commando Course, Selection etc are hard enough as it is - There is no point kicking the arse out of it.

Carrot and stick in equal measure.

Regards,

CS

[harry hackedoff]

Guys will always say "it was harder in my day" That`s the nature of the beast.
Every course is unique in as much as every course is a product of the generation which produces it. Today’s youngsters are not as fit as the lads from the past because they don`t spend every waking moment playing soccer or whatever. We didn`t have Nintendo. These are facts. So if today’s young lads are not as fit, what should the Corps do, tell them standards are standards and if you can`t make the timed run then fark off?
Guess what would happen if the Corps took that approach. There would be no Corps.
Guys who have suffered with today’s ideas of "non-competitive sport" find it very hard to run at all, never mind in boots. So they do the early runs in trainers, so what?
Standards are not being lowered, don`t let anyone tell you that they are. The methods are constantly adapted to still produce the Best.
Today’s RM Recruit has far more to take in since Cdo 21 came into effect, more weapons to learn, the Cdo 21 orbat, Vikings etc etc etc.
You try standing in front of any of the Gravs who have just come back from Afghanistan and tell them standards are being lowered, they’ll rip yer fugging head off and shove it up your arse. They’ve just experienced the most intense period of prolonged combat since 1944 and have done so proudly.
The Best is still the Best, don`t let anyone tell you different.

[Polynikes]

"Standards are not being lowered, don`t let anyone tell you that they are. The methods are constantly adapted to still produce the Best."

Thanks Harry Hackedoff... I needed to hear/read that

[harry hackedoff]

Further to my last,
I well remember the time a certain Cpl would whip recruits on the tongue with a nettle if he found they had not cleaned their teeth in the field. If they had farked up, he had them make the declaration "I have no live rounds, empty cylinders blah blah blah, and can I have a dead leg, please Corporal."
This would be carried out with that mixture of ritual humiliation and sardonic humour which ensures there will be no repeat performances. Next time, teeth will gleam and you will not fark up
Same as dirty mess bins get chucked in the gorse or un-buttoned pockets get the contents strewn and the button cut off. It`s all there for a purpose.
Well, Little Johnny writes home to mummy, doesn’t he? Tells her the nettle dit in a "look how much fun I`m having" sort of way. Mummy was not best pleased and she earholes her M.P. "is this any way to treat Little Johnny?” she whinges. Questions were asked in the House and before you could say” Too slow, Lofty, get in the tank" all the new Noddys had the orange "don`t shout at me, I`m new" tabs. Any ex on the common had to have a "safety tent" erected with heaters, just in case it got a bit parky
Times change. The quality of incoming Recruits changes. This is as true for us as it is for Para Reg. The training methods that worked so well in the fifties, sixties seventies eighties etc etc maybe won`t work so well, today.
That the training teams are able to produce Marines of the standard they do, shows me the future of the Corps is in safe hands

And no, I wasn`t that Cpl