pins and needles when yomping

[ramz56]

hi
i went for a yomp recently and after about 2 miles i started to get pins and needles in both hands, ive noticed this quites alot recently, does anyone have any tips for preventing this??
thanks

[Sarastro]

Sounds like your circulation is being cut off to the arms, are your shoulder straps too tight? Wearing a tight t-shirt to impress the birds & bees?

You most likely know this already, but make sure you have a secure & fastened waist / stomach strap on your bergen, vastly increases stability and will allow you to loosen the shoulders a bit without it bouncing around.

[Eddie]

Shoulder straps too tight mate? I know you don't want your bergen/daysack too loose but don't overdo it. Depending on what you're using, you might want to play around with the adjustment straps for the shoulders, back-panel, or on some sacks, at the top of the shoulders.

Or is it just cold hands?

Those are the only two things I can think of I'm afraid.

*edit* Sarastro beat me too it

[Sarastro]

Great minds Eddie

[eagleeye]

Hi since this is a decent topic to post my question in, what is a decent start distance for yomp training?

[mancuniankid]

4-5 miles, that was the distance of the first ever one i did in training.

[Sarastro]

Eagle - depends on the weight carried / terrain / level of fitness.

I read a TA training guide for tabbing a while back (not sure where, but if you search TA site under fitness programs, sure you can find it), which suggested:

Week 1: 2 miles at 12 kilos x 2

...gradually working up to...

Week 8: 8 miles at 20 kilos x 1

I think it was essentially add another 2 miles every 2 weeks, and another kilo every week.

Also, find out the basics:

First Rule of Tab Club: starting out, do no more than 1 or 2 tabs a week, with at least 2-3 days inbetween.
Second Rule of Tab Club: start off with light weight, 10-12 kilos.

Learn how to run with weight (nothing like normal running, lift feet as little as possible to reduce impact and shifting weight, lean body to get best balance, bergen must be correctly secured).
Learn when to run, and when to march (good rule of thumb: uphill = march, flat = run, downhill = very careful run, the weight makes this the most dangerous part).
Learn to check your form; watch out for knees & feet pronating inwards, conserve movement, and learn correct form so you don't stress your back.
Learn to listen to your muscles; common early injuries include overstressed calves (particularly if you are going over hills), knees (see above), and overstressed glutes. Stop immediately if you feel a chronic non-fatigue muscle pain.

Essentially, you should really try and find someone who can show you this in the flesh, it's easy to bugger yourself up.

Having said all that, in Scotland this christmas I jumped straight into a 10-miler at P-coy pace carrying 15 kilos, did it on no sleep & no food, and having been off training for 4 weeks (this was a one-off 'forced' by circumstance, got stranded travelling, decided it would be a good snap test of ability), and managed it quite easily. My legs & glutes were buggered for the next two days, but no damage, and managed to do some 4 milers up and down 600m hills over the next week.

WARNING WARNING...But, I've always been quite a good packhorse though, so this may not be a good guideline. Some people are naturally built for tabbing and will find it easy to pick up, some are not - this has little to nothing to do with your aerobic fitness. Try to work out which one you are. If you are having difficulties, go slow, if you find yourself doing good times, push a little harder WARNING OVER.

PS It's also well worth breaking yourself in slowly as a warm-down to regular training. For example, today and about once a week, I tab a mile or two back from the heath where I train carrying my bike and all my kit, keeps your leg muscles in the habit, and you learn to carry awkward weight & equipment more easily.

[15-RMC]

Hi,
I get these pains all the time when yomping, Im usually carrying about 15k, and well ithge shoulder straps just cut the blood of to some parts of my hands, Ive just yomped through it and its caused me any problems, I go on yomps pretty regulary and after 3 days of the pins and needles there are no after effects for me.

How ever i might be just wierd and not prone to pins and needles related injurys.

Hope this helps

16-RMC

[Hankins]

haha, pains in your body are very common when yomping, it just be a case of pricking heat or just bad circulation, you build up your weight fairly quickly in training and i just got off of dorsets leap (week 20) a couple weeks ago and i was carrying just under 120 pounds webbing and bergen, the pains you get are all over after a while and you just have to deal with it, the first couple miles are the toughest but after that the pain just remains the same and then around 5 hours later 10 miles down the road you'll be there:)

[dylanredefined]

I agree it always hurts sounds like the straps are too tight .If you can adjust the straps or just take a break potentiol to do yourself some injury
if you carried on for miles .

[chris_]

possible indication of a circulation problem?

some people get this sort of thing in various situations.
could be due to a combination of (slightly) poor circulation and a lot of blood being pumped to your legs...and a lack of blood to the hands and arms.

[JoeAllen28]

ive been doing a bit of tabbing recently. mainly because i enjoy it more than running lol. i also get the pins and needles down the left arm, it was me shoulder strap being too tight though, and after i adjusted it ive had no probs.

quick question. i did a 2 hour tab last week and covered 7.4 miles (measured on mapmyrun.com) could anyone tell me wether this is good/acceptable/shite?

cheers joe

[JoeAllen28]

oh, forgot to mention weight. bergan with 45lbs in.

cheers again, joe

[Sarastro]

Joe - it varies according to distance and trade, so can only tell you what I know, which is:

P-coy = 10 miles at 20 kilo (15k bergan + SA80 at 5k) in 2 hours
CFT P-coy version = 2 miles at 21 kilo (16k bergan +SA80) in 19 minutes
CFT infantry version = 3 miles at 25 kilo (20 bergan +SA80) in 1 hour

If you are just beginning, it seems from those figures that 7.4 in 2 hours at 20k is good for standard infantry times, and a decent starter to improve for Para / RM.

Other important factors would be;

a) elevation you climbed in that time
b) how much % running, how much marching
c) marching speed (running speed seems to be pretty standard when I've seen it, but walking / marching paces seem to vary a lot)
d) how much did you have left in the tank / could you push harder if necessary?

For elevation, I have no idea what the 'undulating terrain' which all Army / RM test tabs go over actually means. I started out with what the landscape offered, which was going over 7-8 300m 'hills'. If you want to check the elevation on a tab route, try http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ and use the elevation option on your route (metric = meters, english = feet) - BUT, just checked that function on some of the routes I run regularly, and it's pretty wonky, doesn't look at all accurate or reliable - might want to ignore that.

Bear in mind that tabbing isn't a fine art, incline, distance and weight will all vary a lot under real circumstances, and greatly affect the speed you need to maintain.

Also remember I'm just as much an amateur as you at this stuff, so all this is based only on my own research & observation. Sure some of the old'n'bold on the site can keep you better informed.

[druadan]

Royal's annual CFT is 8 miles in 2 hours with (I *think*, don't quote me) 69lbs plus weapon (btw Sarastro, I've never held an SA80 weighing 5kg, 5 lbs maybe!). It is notoriously easy compared to most of the yomping you have to do in training/mountain training/Norway etc.