Im out,
all of this is beyond me, im just a silly little boy who doesnt understand "polotics", Ill go back to reading harry potter and watching the tweenies or hi 5 as I think one of the presenters is a little hottie. Actually what I should be doing is working, but we all know that if god didnt want us to go on the internet at work he wouldnt have invented it.
And just in case Matty is reading this, HAHA, and just in case anyone cares, his dad bought him a new Audi TT and some one rear ended him a day later.
Share This Page:
cracking quote
-
markthestab
- Member
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sun 29 May, 2005 7:03 pm
- Location: Nottingham
this crap needs to be kept in the politics section, thats why i dont read the politics section
and anyone who sypahises at all with any terorist should question why they're joining or have joined the british armed forces, historicly and presently we as a coutry (army,raf,navy) do everything we can to avoid the death of innocent people, terrorist do everything they can to kill innocent people
terrorists are c*nts, robbie i wasnt aiming my post at you, ive not really read your post because its one long mass of words
i was p!ssed off at the more older/intelligent posters on here who usually write a lot of sense and should know better , though i apologise for swearing and whinging at them cos id just come back from the TAC's bar and was a bit tipsy and tired, my manners went out the window
and anyone who sypahises at all with any terorist should question why they're joining or have joined the british armed forces, historicly and presently we as a coutry (army,raf,navy) do everything we can to avoid the death of innocent people, terrorist do everything they can to kill innocent people
terrorists are c*nts, robbie i wasnt aiming my post at you, ive not really read your post because its one long mass of words
i was p!ssed off at the more older/intelligent posters on here who usually write a lot of sense and should know better , though i apologise for swearing and whinging at them cos id just come back from the TAC's bar and was a bit tipsy and tired, my manners went out the window
-
markthestab
- Member
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sun 29 May, 2005 7:03 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Yep as ive said earlier please move all this over to the polotics section and lets never hear of this bollocks again.
Im glad someone thinks alike here i dont know how it gets moved but would someone please move it thankyou.
sorry mark i will now punctuate my posts properly so you lot can read them.
Im glad someone thinks alike here i dont know how it gets moved but would someone please move it thankyou.
sorry mark i will now punctuate my posts properly so you lot can read them.
Last edited by robbiew on Thu 15 Sep, 2005 1:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
Bliartheliar
- Guest
It helps for you to call terrorists c@#t, and I agree that some of them are.
Islamic extremists in Iraq, London or New York killing innocent people to create anarchy are not justified, nor is cutting the heads off captured Russian soldiers, Iraqi police or contractors.
However, the point that I was trying to make is not that terrorism can be excused but the means can jsutify the ends in one way or another. Using terrorism when unnecessary is not jsutified because by definition thier victims are innocent bystaders. People like Osama Bin Laden and Musab al Zawqawi could have used guerrilla tactics against the governments they are fighting, but they choose not to wage legitimate resistance but to murder - that is inexcusable. There are guerrillas in Iraq fighting against coalition forces and they are doing that legitimately under international law.
However, in the case of Palestine vs Israel terrorism is used as a last resort. If they wanted to, the Israelis could take every piece of Palestinian land and the occupants of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank wouldnt be able to do a thing about it. Even if they did wage guerrilla war against Israeli troops and tanks, the Israelis would claim it to be terrorism and they would caputre more land using defense as an excuse. Im not anti-semetic before someone says, but the Israelis have basically taken land away from the Palestinians agianst international law and UN resolutions. The Palestinians are forced into a corner and are lving in poor conditions in the refugee camps. They havent got an army, so they cant resist Israel militarily. Their only way to fight back and defend thier land is through terrorism.
Ovcourse, the victims are still innocent. But through terrorism the political situation can be changed. Its thier only way and a last resort. If the Palestinians had smart bombs, tanks and infantry units, they wouldnt need to resort to terrorism - it is a last resort of resistance. If you dont think they have the right to use desperate measures, you are basically saying that Israel has the right to do anything it wants because it has a powerful army. Palestinans suicide bombers are not Islamic extremists. They are Palestinian resistance.
The French resistance used terrorism, basically because they couldnt successfuly take on the Wehrmacht even using guerrilla tactics. Were they c@#t? If so, you are saying they didnt have the right to resist the Nazis.
Although our intentions in Iraq are now good, we are still an occupying force. Under international law resistance groups have the right to attack coalition forces. They do not have the right to attack civilians. Guerrilla tactics and terrorism are not the same.
Islamic extremists in Iraq, London or New York killing innocent people to create anarchy are not justified, nor is cutting the heads off captured Russian soldiers, Iraqi police or contractors.
However, the point that I was trying to make is not that terrorism can be excused but the means can jsutify the ends in one way or another. Using terrorism when unnecessary is not jsutified because by definition thier victims are innocent bystaders. People like Osama Bin Laden and Musab al Zawqawi could have used guerrilla tactics against the governments they are fighting, but they choose not to wage legitimate resistance but to murder - that is inexcusable. There are guerrillas in Iraq fighting against coalition forces and they are doing that legitimately under international law.
However, in the case of Palestine vs Israel terrorism is used as a last resort. If they wanted to, the Israelis could take every piece of Palestinian land and the occupants of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank wouldnt be able to do a thing about it. Even if they did wage guerrilla war against Israeli troops and tanks, the Israelis would claim it to be terrorism and they would caputre more land using defense as an excuse. Im not anti-semetic before someone says, but the Israelis have basically taken land away from the Palestinians agianst international law and UN resolutions. The Palestinians are forced into a corner and are lving in poor conditions in the refugee camps. They havent got an army, so they cant resist Israel militarily. Their only way to fight back and defend thier land is through terrorism.
Ovcourse, the victims are still innocent. But through terrorism the political situation can be changed. Its thier only way and a last resort. If the Palestinians had smart bombs, tanks and infantry units, they wouldnt need to resort to terrorism - it is a last resort of resistance. If you dont think they have the right to use desperate measures, you are basically saying that Israel has the right to do anything it wants because it has a powerful army. Palestinans suicide bombers are not Islamic extremists. They are Palestinian resistance.
The French resistance used terrorism, basically because they couldnt successfuly take on the Wehrmacht even using guerrilla tactics. Were they c@#t? If so, you are saying they didnt have the right to resist the Nazis.
Although our intentions in Iraq are now good, we are still an occupying force. Under international law resistance groups have the right to attack coalition forces. They do not have the right to attack civilians. Guerrilla tactics and terrorism are not the same.
-
markthestab
- Member
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sun 29 May, 2005 7:03 pm
- Location: Nottingham
the palastinians are taught in school that there will be no peice with isreal and the bombings of innocent isrealis will continue untill isreal itself no longer exists, these bombings will not stop
that doesnt excuse isreals land grabbing but those territorys were taken itself when nearby arab countries decided to invade isreal
isreal is a county now home to millions who cannot just up and leave just to satisfy the palistinians and stop the suicide attacks,the state itself may be guit;y of some crappy things, but that doesnt mean every isreali is a legitimate target that deserves to die, neither do innocent palastinians killed in isreali airstrikes that seem to have little regard for human life, if the target is in a built up area the strike should be called off, like the RAF do
and for your logic to be acceptable that means every isreali is a legit target ,man,woman or child
no sane person can come to that conclusion
that doesnt excuse isreals land grabbing but those territorys were taken itself when nearby arab countries decided to invade isreal
isreal is a county now home to millions who cannot just up and leave just to satisfy the palistinians and stop the suicide attacks,the state itself may be guit;y of some crappy things, but that doesnt mean every isreali is a legitimate target that deserves to die, neither do innocent palastinians killed in isreali airstrikes that seem to have little regard for human life, if the target is in a built up area the strike should be called off, like the RAF do
and for your logic to be acceptable that means every isreali is a legit target ,man,woman or child
no sane person can come to that conclusion
-
Bliartheliar
- Guest
No, groups such as Hamas will not continue thier campaign untill Israel is destroyed. Its rubbish to think that. Hamas and the PLO were created to force back Israel to its pre-existing boundaries. Senior Hamas leaders have said that they would acknowldge Israel's existance if it abided by international law. Propaganda by militants and International extremists alike may speak about the destruction of Israel, but its just that - propaganda. Hizbollah has virtually ceased its campaign against Israel because it has withdraw from occupied territory in Lebanon.
Its simply a misconception. Its on par with the belief that the goal of extremists is to destroy democracy or to kill every 'infidel' on the planet. People like Bin Laden use such expressions to win support, although its not his actual aim or the aim of extremist groups.
Lets fase facts. Israel is in violation of the 1967 boundaries. It has used the excuse of defence (although it has the right to defend itself) to occupy land and to build settlements on caputred land. Even the wall used to stop suicide bombers from entering Israel was really used to grab land. The Palestinians were cut off from the see and Palestinian communities were cut off from one another. Ariel Sharon instigated the 2000 inifada to win politcal points in his own Lukid party. Palestinian people did not have the freedom to move around wothout the fear of being shot, while legitimate poliitcal figures were often assassinated by the Israelis. Israel has one the most afdvanced armed forces in the world, and the Palestinians have nothing to fight back with effectively.
I dont believe that every Israeli is a legitimate target. Some people have suggested this because every adult aged 18 and above is conscripted into the army. However, although it is legitimate to fight soldiers, terrorism makes no distinction between civilians and military therefore it is not jusitifed. However terrorism does happen. And it happens because the Palestinians have niether the political power nor military strength to fight for what they believe. Terrorism is a tactic that requires no great knowledge or skill, and is a tactic that is available to everyone. And it works.
The international commmunity has the power to prevent terrorism with words instead of bullets.
If the Palestinians had a powerful military, they wouldnt need to use terrorism. But we have basically left them to rot while we supplied Israel with money and weapons. We cannot simply sit in our homes here in the UK and expect to understand what drives people to commit terrorism and condem them.
Instead of just blindly condemming terrorism and trying to solve the problem using counter-terrorist techniques and air strikes, we need to tackle the roots of terrorism. The international community should have forced Israel to stick by its obligations and halt weapons exports to them. If the Palestinans knew that the international comunity were paying attention to them, they wouldnt go out and bomb resturants and such.
Even international extremism can be prevented by tackling the roots. Its a point ive been trying to make over and over again. If democratic reform took place in the ME, Islamic moderates would be able to voice thier opinions without fear of arrest and torture by regimes. Then, over time, moderation would flourish and the extremists would loose thier support. al Qaeda, as it is commonly known, grew from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt which was banned by the government who wanted to control Islamic clerics. These extremists from Egypt, and other countries from around the globe, came together in Afghanistan under Osama Bin Laden among others. They concluded that the only way that they could topple such oppressive governments and install Islamic leadership was to remove the regime's primary supporter - the US.
If we want to fight terrorism we need to encourage democratic reform in the Muslim countries. The 'war on terror' is not between the US and al Qaeda. It is between Islamic extremists and oppressive regimes. The US and allies are just being attacked for getting involved in thier issues.
Its simply a misconception. Its on par with the belief that the goal of extremists is to destroy democracy or to kill every 'infidel' on the planet. People like Bin Laden use such expressions to win support, although its not his actual aim or the aim of extremist groups.
Lets fase facts. Israel is in violation of the 1967 boundaries. It has used the excuse of defence (although it has the right to defend itself) to occupy land and to build settlements on caputred land. Even the wall used to stop suicide bombers from entering Israel was really used to grab land. The Palestinians were cut off from the see and Palestinian communities were cut off from one another. Ariel Sharon instigated the 2000 inifada to win politcal points in his own Lukid party. Palestinian people did not have the freedom to move around wothout the fear of being shot, while legitimate poliitcal figures were often assassinated by the Israelis. Israel has one the most afdvanced armed forces in the world, and the Palestinians have nothing to fight back with effectively.
I dont believe that every Israeli is a legitimate target. Some people have suggested this because every adult aged 18 and above is conscripted into the army. However, although it is legitimate to fight soldiers, terrorism makes no distinction between civilians and military therefore it is not jusitifed. However terrorism does happen. And it happens because the Palestinians have niether the political power nor military strength to fight for what they believe. Terrorism is a tactic that requires no great knowledge or skill, and is a tactic that is available to everyone. And it works.
The international commmunity has the power to prevent terrorism with words instead of bullets.
If the Palestinians had a powerful military, they wouldnt need to use terrorism. But we have basically left them to rot while we supplied Israel with money and weapons. We cannot simply sit in our homes here in the UK and expect to understand what drives people to commit terrorism and condem them.
Instead of just blindly condemming terrorism and trying to solve the problem using counter-terrorist techniques and air strikes, we need to tackle the roots of terrorism. The international community should have forced Israel to stick by its obligations and halt weapons exports to them. If the Palestinans knew that the international comunity were paying attention to them, they wouldnt go out and bomb resturants and such.
Even international extremism can be prevented by tackling the roots. Its a point ive been trying to make over and over again. If democratic reform took place in the ME, Islamic moderates would be able to voice thier opinions without fear of arrest and torture by regimes. Then, over time, moderation would flourish and the extremists would loose thier support. al Qaeda, as it is commonly known, grew from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt which was banned by the government who wanted to control Islamic clerics. These extremists from Egypt, and other countries from around the globe, came together in Afghanistan under Osama Bin Laden among others. They concluded that the only way that they could topple such oppressive governments and install Islamic leadership was to remove the regime's primary supporter - the US.
If we want to fight terrorism we need to encourage democratic reform in the Muslim countries. The 'war on terror' is not between the US and al Qaeda. It is between Islamic extremists and oppressive regimes. The US and allies are just being attacked for getting involved in thier issues.
