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markthestab
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#136 Post by markthestab » Thu 28 Jul, 2005 7:39 pm

got a new one now;

leave your 60 lbs bergan on one side of a football pitch

run without bergan to one end sprint back 20 press-ups

pick up bergan and run there and back 20 sit-ups

etc,etc

do that for 20 minutes and tell me you wouldnt prefer a quick death :evil: :lol:

absolutly shagged i was after that, my calfs were on fire and my lungs were on the verge of exploding

had to follow it today with a gentle swim cos i could hardly walk :lol:

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sd88
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#137 Post by sd88 » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 1:37 am

I was just wondering, if my upper body is considerably weaker in comparison to my lower body (I can run 3 miles in 19:12 but can only do 40/60 press ups and 11/16 pull-ups) should I be first looking to strengthen my upper body on weights machines before trying any more press-ups etc?

It seems that I have been able to do 40 press ups for a long time now and have only once done 47 as a max. Should I keep doing press ups while using the gym machines 2/3 times a week, just do press ups, or just use the gym machines until I have more stamina?

cosmo
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#138 Post by cosmo » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 11:29 am

I used to be able to do about 30 maximum, but then i started doing exercises with weights to strengthen my tricep muscles and the muscles at the back of my arm, since i've been doing this i can do well over 60. :)

Bliartheliar

#139 Post by Bliartheliar » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 3:30 pm

Ive started going the gym 3 x a week to supplement my CT (3x). Ive also started taking protein powder to help build my upper body strength. But, I dont think you should just do weights on there own. Keep up the cardio work too. I find it enjoyable to run every other day and row, cycle and step in between. Variation helps me to remian motivated throughout each session and throughout my training regime as a whole.

DWW

#140 Post by DWW » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 3:56 pm

Protein powder doesn't build strength mate. Used correctly it can increase your muscle mass and recovery times. The most important time to supplement with protein (in particular whey, as it is very quick digesting) is post workout.

The basic accepted premise of protein intake is that 1gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day will be sufficient to increase muscle mass. This however depends on adequate carbohydrate intake. Post workout this ideally is 50-100 grams of simple carbs (sucrose/glucose) to replenish the muscles store.

Also, the optimum protein intake for gaining muscle size is 30-50grams every 3 hours. At LEAST 3 of these per day should be from whole food meals though. For optimum muscle gain, 5 meals, plus 2/3 supplementary shakes is what I would recommend.

If you want to supplement with protein before bed, caseinate proteins are ideal, as they are slow digesting, and will help thebody to maintain an anabolic rather than a catabolic state during sleep.

While there are links between muscle size and strength, they are not mutually exclusive. For military training muscle size isn't necessarily ideal. At 6 foot and 15 stone with low bodyfat (approx 10-12%) I'm going to have to slim down a little bit to restart my military style training.

However I do believe there is a place for protein supplementation in military fitness, as long as bodyweight is carefully regulated, rather than the 5000kcal+ a day 'bulking' bodybuilding training style I have been doing while I have been unable to run through injury.

Dave

Bliartheliar

#141 Post by Bliartheliar » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 4:06 pm

Im skinny so im using it, along with CT and weights, to build muscle mass. I didnt mean strength sorry. I just want to get to a point where I feel confident and strong. Then ill train from there. Its whey protein that im taking (vyomax or something) but its only a supplement to my regular diet so im definately getting enough. The last thing I want is to train but not have the nutrition to recover and work again properly.

markthestab
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#142 Post by markthestab » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 6:06 pm

if you cant do many press-ups the best way to improve it is to do less reps more times

for example if you cant manage 60, do 4x30, resting or doing sit-ups in between

its best done as a circuit

i really cant see the benefit of wieghts over doing the actual excersise your training for, their is no substitute for press-ups as good as press-ups

if you stick to what ive said your press-ups WILL improve

DWW

#143 Post by DWW » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 6:17 pm

It's called cross training and is very beneficial.

My training for chest and triceps could include:

Bench press: sets of 100kg for 3-4 reps (strength/power)
Bench press: sets of 60kg for 18-25 reps (endurance)
Dips: to failure
Dips: Weighted sets of 6 (strength)
Press ups: sets to failure
Press ups: Sets of 10/20/30
Skullcrushers etc etc etc you get the point.

I do all of these to train myself optimally. You seem to be forgetting that military training isn't supposed to make you good at doing press ups, it's designed to make you a better soldier, through all round strength, power, flexibility, stamina and endurance. This applies to all bodyparts.

There is no doubt in my mind that circuits, weights, bodyweight exercises, swimming, plyometrics, etc etc ALL have uses in military training.

Dave

markthestab
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#144 Post by markthestab » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 6:50 pm

pardon me im just a stab i dont know much about military training :lol:

crack on bud, you know best

Brian-
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#145 Post by Brian- » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 6:58 pm

markthestab wrote:their is no substitute for press-ups as good as press-ups
True, but do the press-ups with weight and they'll be much easier unweighted.. Same goes for sit-ups and pull-ups, makes sense really. :D

markthestab
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#146 Post by markthestab » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 7:01 pm

yeah but if you cant do 60 press-ups what good is 30 press-ups with weight?

you need to be able to do 60 press-ups first then you can think about weight

or better still, go for 90 without weight

Bliartheliar

#147 Post by Bliartheliar » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 7:04 pm

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/complex.htm
What is complex training?
Complex training is a workout comprising of a resistance exercise followed by a matched plyometric exercise e.g.:

squats followed by squat jumps
bench press followed by plyometric press up
The logic behind these matched pair of exercises is that the resistance work gets the nervous system in to full action so that more Type IIb fibres are available for the explosive exercise, hence a better training benefit.
Has anybody ever tried this. Ive only just found it right now and never heard of it before.[/quote]

markthestab
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#148 Post by markthestab » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 7:13 pm

anyway dont listen to me, i might be fit but i havent past TA p coy YET :lol: ive only passed 1 of 4 weekends and then ive got test week

but ive done a lot of the things you will be doing if you manage to pass the entry tests

but if you wont listen to me listen to skiffle, read through this thread and see what types of things you should be doing because this bloke knows his stuff

weights can be beneficial at times, but dont rely on them, lung bursting circuits and runs are what you need to focus on, and if your joining a reserve service like RMR or 4 PARA you will need to do a fair bit of tabbing in your own time to keep it on the ball for P coy or the commando course

DWW

#149 Post by DWW » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 7:14 pm

I've used a similar superset/giant set system myself, but not specifically that type and reasoning. Might be worth a read though.


Markthestab - just my opinion/experience mate. I agree with your point about

"yeah but if you cant do 60 press-ups what good is 30 press-ups with weight?

you need to be able to do 60 press-ups first then you can think about weight

or better still, go for 90 without weight"

and I believe that the training I mentioned and yours need to be run alongside one another, not as a substitute for the other, with a view to overall continual improvement.

Dave

markthestab
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#150 Post by markthestab » Sat 13 Aug, 2005 7:17 pm

good advice here
Skiffle wrote:Whilst I don't deny Paula and most of the top athletes (Seb Coe never did any real serious weigth training programs as he worked mostly with Fartlek, and Breandon has addmitted he never did as it wasn't the done thing in his day). Most Atheletes (including myself) have set training program's including Periodisation Programs to aid there running.

But they do not do weights for strength. There programs are set so that the winter period often becomes there time for Endurance and Stamina Weigth circuits rather than straight strength circuits. This can also include Weights to gain Power (specific to sprints).

The problem with fitting in weights for strength is usually the time taken to find the indaviduals starting point (Took 4 weeks in my training program to condition and then evaluate the starting point). This has led on to a 6 month periodisation program (3 periods of strength gain, 2 periods of Event specific Conditioning- Javelin and 1 period of general body conditioning).

With each strength gain period ( 4 weeks of work at a set % of 1 lift, 3 lift and 5 lift maximum rep's I.E your max acheivable), you have to assess the stage you are at at the end before moving on. For me to do this program my running training has been reduced to nothing but jogs for the first 2 months and a steady increase in mileage towards the end.

To gain true strength, Muscle bulk or greater power/ endurance and stamina requires a continuous program. Or you would never gain the strength correctly, after a session you have a strength gain for 3 days and start top lose it on the fourth day (Don't understand that fully as my coach hasn't explained that to me fully). This means all ideas of repitition and interval training for my Steeple chase events is out the window, as I have to submerse into a Weights program.

Back to the main point.

For PRMC most lads turning up do not have any serious form of training background behind them, and so need to build up a strong basis from which to start so as we (The PT Branch) can build on to reach the physical fitness of that needed to become and maintain as a Marine.

As I have said, 75-80% of PRMC and even Commando training for that matter is running (Bleep test, Between Assault course obstacles, 4/6 & 9 mile speed march, 30 miler, basic fitness test, 3 mile PRMC test, during Troop change for diffrent lessons, to get scran in time, to get a 5 mon quick change done, for a Beasting.....).

To train for a PRMC you need to concentrate on basic fitness requirements. Running and general circuits (as this is basic and also what you are tested on). If you feel the need to do weights, then as I have said, add Dumbbells to a circuit for resistance. But don't think you need to bulk up.

Once you have passed PRMC and are in a Recruit Troop, the PTI's will add some weight strength circuits (but not till after a solid basic background has been built in). If strength is a problem for an indavidul, remidial PT will bge used to help the indavidual gain the strength in the correct area and way.

To add a specific form of strength weights to PRMC is very difficult as you have to know the indaviduals abilities and have a background to work on (which often means basic conditioning before setting or starting the program). The age of people attending PRMC is often between 16-18 which means a reasonable background is not there.

This is why the PT branch do not recomed weights for strength as preperation for PRMC (also not a real requirement). Lads training for PRMC sometimes don't have the 6-8 months to train in, some only have as much as 2. Which dosen't leave time for Weights, but is just enougth to set a good background.

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