The Parachute Regiment - The Gen

[Sisyphus]

the TA SAS were to be infiltrated behind Soviet lines in bombays of Bucaneers in time of a Eastern invasion of West Germany and Central Europe. Don't know how true it is, but struck me as being hair-raising none the less.

How exactly??? Even at stalling speed wouldn't a Buccaneer be travelling too fast for anyone to jump out of, unless strapped into an ejector seat?

[Topper]

Don't really know to be honest. The only way to do that would be inside some sort of exfil pod with parachutes, which sounds far too far fetched to me. There was an exfill pod developed for Harrier, but that was for vertical landing and not supposed to be air dispensed.
Only relaying what the guy told me, i'm sure someone like Chunky will know whether the guy was talking dung or not.

[soldierandy]

I have served with both Para and 'crap-hat' units and even the both the TA equivalents. Surely the Paras standards of fitness and soldiering are above the line infantry units but not by as much as the Paras think. Paras have to work a lot harder to earn their beret therefore you will get the keener individual joining them rather than just trying to avoid the dole queue.

However the standards of soldiering in the British Army are such, that any infantry unit, be it Para, line regiment, regular or TA, will make a good soldier out of everyone. I haven't seen anyone leave their gash around their basha area without getting a severe bollocking or not doing a soviet trench clearing exercise again and again until they get it right.

Isolated examples of bad soldiering you will find in any unit in the world, even in 22, where they can screw up big time. As a matter of fact I have seen TA infantry units perform as well or sometimes better than regular infantry. Bottom line is that we shouldn't look down on any other blokes in this British army because as good as esprit de corps is, so is recognition and interest in the units that make this machine what it is.

[chunky from york]

I think someone has been pulling your leg ! If this method of infiltration had been mooted, the numbers in 21 and 23 would have dropped sharpish.

Watching a video of Billy Connelly, at the moment. He was in 15 Para when it was a TA Battalion. Not a lot of people know that!!

[Chapps]

Chunky,

To pick up on your point regarding the glider troops - the whole airborne idea by Winston Churchill was copied from the Germans success in Create (they did it but took heavy casualties, Hitler didn't like that and never used them again) operations like the Bruneval raid showed that this type of soldier was effective. Hence, training started to bring the number upto a fighting Division - so there was never description of craphats in those days as the fittest and most capable soldiers were selected for these brigades, glider or parachute.

[gunner75]

I knew about Billy Connelly being in the T.A Paras. Even more unbelievable was Frank 'its a cracker' Carson was in the regulars!

[RobT]

No, this is a myth:

But basic and advanced Wales will set standards in field craft, that will be expected to be shown up in the battalions, where 'bad skills' are punish with a GPMG butt in the face.


equivalent to a TA Tosser.

Sorry to 'edit' your post but the bit in italics is, well

As for the TA tosser, you might not have heard but one of these 'tossers' recently lost his life doing his duty for his country in Iraq.

Get a grip of yourself, laddie

Indeed. These fat civvy TA Tossers are fighting with the regulars..they have a job to do and are doing it with professionalism and enthusiasm. 4 TA soldiers so far lost their lives in Iraq.

[Chapps]

Indeed. These fat civvy TA Tossers are fighting with the regulars..they have a job to do and are doing it with professionalism and enthusiasm. 4 TA soldiers so far lost their lives in Iraq.

I have no problem with professionals who have joined the TA to carry over thier civvy qualifications and skills, which can then be called upon for army service.

Its these idiots that are in thier early to mid 20s who join thier local infantry unit and think they are 'in'. They work in a factory or equally boring job, but spend there whole time talking about guns and weapons, they buy all the kit and refer to 'Civvies' and 'Civvy St' - they are bloody civvies! Are army cadets 'in' as well then?

Why don't they join up for real if their job is a coach driver or a clerk they are hardly throwing away a wonderful promising career are they?

The thing I dislike most about this type is the fact that they think TA life is what goes on in the real world.

Enthusiasm ... Keen? these guys are so keen you never see them take their green kit off, because they have had nice rests between TA life such as time with the family, watching TV summer holidays, where the army doesn't own you and if you really didn't want to go, well you just phone up and say your sick/busy/to tired.

But if you were to give them a typical year in the reg - 2 x 4 month emergency tours in Ireland with f@#k-all time off and no leave (unless someone died in the family), working constantly, wet & cold or sleeping. Then the promise of a 2 week sunshine tour in Cyrus, only to be canceled due to training budget shortage and replaced with a 15 night exercise in Sennybridge for the new OC. Then a planned 3 year tour in ...(some where nice? like the poster in the careers office?) no, Ireland.

I wonder how keen they would be then? The fact of the matter is that TA is fun, if it wasn't the MOD would have sod all staying in and even fewer joining.

The fact that so many blokes with 3 to 12 years service in were PVRing goes to show that there is no 'keen' in real life just professional.


I would be pleased to hear from any TA bods as to why they choose not to join the regular army but opt to have a 'TA career' ?

[ED]

Some great points made there Chapps. I can see things from both sides. I'm an ex regular who's now in the position of applying for a TA regiment. Although it takes motivation to work a regular job and soldier on weekends, at the end of the day as a TA soldier in most regiments you have a choice.
It's easy to get keen for exercises when you've got that nice little break after each one. It's the relentless routine of a regular soldier that is the difference.The amount of times I would come back to barracks from an exercise and pack my kit ready to go home and see the missus, only to be told I was on guard over the weekend was a killer. As a regular in a good regiment you are always under scrutiny and you have to perform on a day to day basis. As a TA soldier, if things aren't going too well you always have another life outside. As a regular you don't have this luxury. Although I do have respect for TA soldiers it does unfortunately seem to attract a lot of Walter Mittys.
ED.

[Chapps]

Yeah, the army has a habit of making your morale hit bottom and then when you think it can't get any worst, it does...

...I can remember coming back from a 9 or 10 day OP in Ireland with a bergen full of kit that was in shit state ( because Ireland is constantly raining, nothing and I mean nothing stays dry not even if its waterproof, it just rains up, down sidewards, the rain will walk into your bergen, undo your bergen liner, break into your plastic bag and crawl all over your nice dry pair of spare socks!)

We had been on hard routine for all this time, eating brown biscuits and lying up in a ditch. We got back only to me told to draw fresh rations because an incident had happened and we were to be tasked because no one else was available.

3 more days we were out there! I told myself I was going to sign-off quite a few times during that 3 days while I was alone on stagg.

I think I spent my entire next leave in a cafe scoffing and brewing myself silly, becasue I had promised myself I would in that ditch.

Although I do have respect for TA soldiers it does unfortunately seem to attract a lot of Walter Mittys.
ED.

I had three TA bods from 4 or 10 Para and somewhere else go through depot with me. One of them dropped out very early on, crying off due to injury - his pride I think, as he was gobbing off to us week-3 crows what it was like to do military parachuting, he even asked if he should (could) keep his TA wings on his shirts during depot, and told us how P-Coy was going to be tough. We never heard of him again. The other guy was from some unheard of regiment and got back-squaded due to poor fitness.

The other TA Para Reg guy kept quiet and never referred to his TA background, when he came up to battalion he got through his acceptance cadre without any problems and a few years later he proved to be one of the best liked blokes in the company.

But as you say Ed, there are many Walter Mitty characters out there, that believe that they are at the peak of military know-how.

My point here is that when this guy was in the TA he was a decent bloke and by definition there must be other decent blokes in TA units today.

Then why is it all I ever meet is L/Cpl Walter (talk to me about guns) Mitty, Coach driver and part time Mercenary, but he can't tell anyone about that!

[RobT]

My point here is that when this guy was in the TA he was a decent bloke and by definition there must be other decent blokes in TA units today.

Then why is it all I ever meet is L/Cpl Walter (talk to me about guns) Mitty, Coach driver and part time Mercenary, but he can't tell anyone about that!

There are lots of decent blokes i have met in the TA and from the Regulars too. You'll always find the odd-bod with jaw flapping about as you said "Guns and mercenaries"! but its just luck who we bump into!



Rob

[gunner75]

I was with 4Para for 4 to 5 years and tend to agree with what has been said. Although I never met any walter types just people with a genuine interest in soldiering and the buzz of parachuting. At the end of the day the TA is for most an interest or past time and is void of the harsh realities of being a regular soldier. I personally joined to get an insight into soldiering and what it can be like. I found I enjoy it so Im now in the process of joining the regulars. I would say that the skills iv learnt would stand me in good stead and apart from the banter and ribbing about being in the TA surely thats not a bad thing!

[df2inaus]

Chapps,

The fact of the matter is that TA is fun, if it wasn't the MOD would have sod all staying in and even fewer joining.

Your post hit home becasue it was true. I'm one of those people who joined the TA at 27 after leaving the Canadian Reserves (Infantry) at 20. By next week at age 30, I'll probably be back in the Cdn Reserve (Signals).

Fact is, after a vacation in sunny climes (no OC's permission required, of course) I couldn't wait to get back to my TA unit. When the time came to go back to the regulars (RMAS) after leave, I was scared shitless, as I was on a "warning." My turnout, drills, and leadership never recovered from these warnings and I PVR'd a few weeks later.

Even wannabes like me can have issues with Walter types though, if you can believe it, its all relative. I was given the full debrief in a bar once by a 19-year old member of a UOTC unit who was extremely rude to me after I had told him about my 6 months at RMAS for the sake of conversation. He boldly declared "how could I fail something so easy" and that he would one day complete the 3-week TA Commissioning Course.

How could I argue with a guy who knows everything? If I'd walked away or punched him out I would have looked bad so I just listened intently as he dug his own hole in front of his girlfriend, who was clearly astounded by some of the things he was telling me.

UOTC is looked down upon even by the TA, not just because they think they're God's gift. They have no role whatsoever and are not liable to call-up, much like ROTC in the US where Clinton hid from Vietnam before his grad school deferment. Stats show about 10 percent of UOTC people commission from RMAS.

I have two degrees myself plus 6 months of training at RMAS and UOTC types would talk to me as if I had little more than a pair of marbles upstairs, unbelievable.

I respect the regular forces immeasurably after my experience at RMAS and to compare life in the TA to the regs is folly. However, people like Chunky From York had a different time in the TA entirely.

If you're really serious about soldiering as a member of the TA and going on lengthy operational tours, it is possible. The Canadian Army's biggest gun battle since Korea was fought by a reservist-heavy unit (Royal 22nd Regiment) in Croatia in '93 and took no casualties. But if bullet-dodging is your thing, you can get away with it, unless war is declared, of course, and that's unlikely ever to happen again in a NATO country.

[Tab]

Now the talk about Glider Troops, they are classed as Airborne Soldiers and are accepted into the Parachute Regiment Association. Now I have been a Soldier in a County Regiment and also a member of the Parachute
Regiment. Now I must admit that I never saw any beasting or new recruits to any of the Companies or being mistreated, I did see the odd silly sod get a thump for pointing a weapon at a fellow soldier, and after the number of accidents that we had seen with the sten guns I could understand the chaps being nervous about such things. As far as the TA go they do work hard at what they do but they are not the equeal of a full time regular soldier who is doing nothing else all week except hone his skills. Some of the comments about the difference between the Crap hats and the Para's seems to brought up a certain ammout bile, but when you have served in both you might just know what you are talking about.

[alex4013]

Interesting about that canadian bod.. UOTC load of bo**ox.. I know a mtae from school who went to Edinburgh university to do some mad physics s**t.. clever as they come.. he left UOTC and refused a commission because the pay he got a as a private in the signals TA with a trade was more than a 2nd luey.. fact. he now has a PhD in astro-mega-brain-eletro-physics stuff and is a humble corporal in the TA. FAct is TA give up a lot.. but they get a lot back.. good pay.. pi** ups.. bounty, camp etc.. it's a hard life but someone has to do it!!

sounds like the 19 year old was damn lucky not to get agood slap from you canadian bloke..!