'Forced Out' a book worth a read

[harry hackedoff]

My opinion of Simon`s book is that it is the story of an ordinary bloke and what goes wrong, sometimes. By having the balls to write about it, and by appearing on t.v. and radio to discuss it, Si is raising the profile of PTSD. How many men have recognised his story within themself?
Well done Simon, I say.
Aye,
P.S. I`m still pushing Oz Def to review the book, mate

[sp10122]

Well as I said.

We should of course support those who have problems but at the same time the vast majority of soldiers don't sell their stories and work hard without the need for limelight.

I was commenting more about the principle rather than this chap in particular which is why I started by saying I hadn't read it. I don't agree with ex-servicemen writing books about their experiences. If it has helped this chap get over his problems I wish him all the best.

But I'd say it's more of a problem of the system if the only way for Simon to feel better is to write about it. I fully appreciate the impacts of PTSD and of course don't deny them (as one PM suggested) but I feel we owe ex-servicemen more support than we do (and obviously the Police by the sounds of it).

I'll read it as soon as I get the chance but I'd strongly suggest you all get hold of The Scars of War by Hugh McManners. A very interesting study of the pshycological effects of warfare. Also Chickenhawkby Robert Mason as well about Vietnam.....that guy fought through some incredible situations in constant danger and had PTSD severely when he returned at a time when it wasn't recognised for what it is. If only the last couple of chapters.

Surely the question is though why are some people affected more by things they have seen than others?

[Shoulderholster]

SP
"I don't agree with ex servicemen writing books about their experiences".

I'm just wondering why your reading "Chickenhawk" if you don't agree with the above.
When I read it I'm sure it was about an ex servicemans experiences of war!.
I'm sure the prescribed reading material at Sandhurst includes many publications by retired Generals.memoirs campaign notes etc.We learn by our own failures and triumphs,and by the same token by reading of others failures and triumphs.
Don't take this as a personal attack,its just that your post contradicts itself.
As for having a bad day,theres plenty more where that came from!.
Happy reading,take care.
SH

[harry hackedoff]

why are some people affected more by things they have seen than others?

Why do some people have blue eyes?
PTSD is the name for a group of symptoms, rather than a single disease. The symptoms vary from one individual to another in intensity, and allso from the time of onset. Sometimes, many years will elapse between the traumatic cause and the arrival of symptoms. For some, PTSD will result in withdrawal from friends and families, alcohol or drug addiction, loss of livelihood, violence and prison. There are men in gaol, right now, who have lost everything. Any Policeman will tell you how many drunks or guys sleeping rough are ex-services on their patch. It doesn’t have to be this way; it is predictable, preventable and treatable. All it requires is the political will to spend money.
Roll on the class action.
Aye,

[harry hackedoff]

Further to that, Simon will (I hope) make some dosh for writing the book and why shouldn’t he? He has said many times that writing the book helped him to cope. What he has done is to tell his story, the story of an ordinary bloke, and what can go wrong sometimes. He has provided his own example, for many sufferers to admit, firstly to themself, that "things ain`t right"
I applaud his courage for doing so.

[SYB]

Its nothing to do with lime light!
If I wanted to purely make money. I could have wrote a book under an alias name and "SEXED IT UP"
Like many have done!
To top that I wrote it myself without the aid of a ghost writer.

I still have to work and if you work out the number of years it took me to write it and divide that into the royalties/ trips to publishers, legal costs etc etc Ive not made enough to live on. This isnt HArry Potter you know

I hope the book Proves a point on how PTSD effects people- anyone. Dont think it cant effect you, because you never know whats going to happen and how you think about it afterwards?????

Its tough in the military. But as black rat outlined its also Bl**dy tough in the cops- I saw many many horrific things on a daily basis related to gun crime/violence, in our own cities. Lots of this never makes the news.....

A passage in my book describes the death of a soldier! Out of the 4 of us at the scene. One ended up dying? Two marriages were wrecked and I was diagnosed with PTSD 4 years later WHo could/should of been helped?

[sp10122]

Shoulder, because I don't agree with it but that doesn't make it a bad read. Slightly hypocritical I know but as these books are about my profession you can't help but be interested. But what we do with/for our mates for our own reasons should stay that way. Partly for the security implications and yes an-ex RM is different from an ex-SF but I believe in the principle.

Harry, ok but have a look at the Jessica Lynch thread(s) and there are some pretty strong opinions on there who would disagree about making money out of your service.

I must admit I didn't put my original post particularly well and was maybe overly (unintentionally) harsh. But what wound me up was the response to the G & L review....do you really think that was unreasonable? It was an opinion, well articulated, by a serving RM officer.

I wish Simon all the best and if his book has helped others then good news. But you tell me Simon..........how are we to help people who are finding things difficult? What could the services or Police done better for you? Surely this is the important thing that needs to be addressed to ensure that people are better supported in the future.

[SYB]

Put you in the picture.. Review in G&L has other factors behind it! very long story although he has no knowledge/experience of the Police and crime in inner city Moss Side! But he's entitled to his views ?? (So I didnt do 22 years is that what he is saying? not sure.)

Anyway going back to your question. I belive many things can help.
For sufferers there needs to be ready available treatment. Ditch the stigma behind the GET A GRIP SON mentallity> I believe its changing and getting better? you may be able to answer that one?

Educating the new joiners-- whether this be in HM forces or the Police.

I personally believe that ex veterans/Police officers should have a class room discussion/presentation with these YOUNG bright eyed people about the dirty side of the business-
It wouldnt be the same coming from a welfare officer/ or a young Counsellor? Perhaps they could all go together?

This may help them recognise the signs and symptoms later on when bloodied. So when they cant sleep they may realise why and seek help. Its easy for individuals to dismiss if the service/treatment isnt available.

For the military> debriefs for during and after conflict? (I know the during bit is practically very difficult)
For the Police >debrief after traumatic events?

Im all for support and change and if I can help then all the better.
Hence why so may vets from this site turned out for the yomp over Dartmoor
Regards
Simon

[sp10122]

Simon

Ok, if there are other issues beind the review then that is extremely poor for the individual concerned. Especially if he's a serving officer......he should be a better man than that. But for what he said I understood his point of view and it didn't sound unreasonable whether true or not....when I finish the book I'll be much better placed to comment.

I think you've raised some good and important ideas about PTSD. I think we should centre more on this issue and the idea of experienced soldiers and officers talking to people about the experiences and problems they have had is a very good one. I will certainly look to incorporate it in training in the future.

For me the support network of our 'mates' in terms of our senses of humour and professionalism (which sets us apart from civies) is what really keeps us going and allows us to laugh at and cope with death, extreme danger and the loss of friends.

We of course have to avoid going too far down the 'wrap the soldiers in cotton wool' road because we require that certain element of hardness and robustness. But at the same time we should have an effective and clearly defined system for those who require help without stigma.


I'd certainly like to meet up for the next 30 miler........if only to show all you Royals how us Pongos do it.

[SYB]

Yes, I understand your points about being a team. I used to at the forfront of laughing it off. But?

Its when you leave?
Civvys dont understand?
All those pals/ oppos/buddies have gone.. So who do you laugh and joke with when you cant sleep/nightmares or flashbacks whilst walking around tescos?
A bottle??
Any help?

[sp10122]

Well, exactly.

And as I understand it a proper ongoing network of support does not exist. Even loved ones don't really understand.

The Gulf War Syndrome saga...whether or not it exists (another debate) the services should be supporting these people.

I realise this forum has given some with PTSD (or whatever labels you choose) help and somewhere to talk and I commend many of you for your spirit in supporting these people.

Simon I certainly look forward to having a beer with you at the next event.


Simon

[ratso]

You are full of S++T son and seem to just want to see how far you can push this go away buy the book and be enlightened.

It was an opinion, well articulated, by a serving RM officer.

Well that is debatable! Though I can't be bothered as the officer in question is so full of s**t and must have read the book in less than an hour in bright sun whilst wearing night vision glasses. Then he is the Corps authority on PTSD WHAT A BLOODY JOKE THAT IS!!!

I set up a charity last year, NO OFFICERS, we get as much crap as you are spouting from serving officers, the idiots that is, for I have met many good officers and quite a few who have read this book and praised it.

I have to ask you to tell us more about yourself and how long and where you have served, oh sorry we shouldn't do that. Though I bet you read quite a few books by Generals such as a certain ex SAS member whilst at Sandhurst as I know they are on the reading list.

READ THE BOOK SON. Then come back on here and debate it like a man not a boy. As an officer you should be trained not to step on land mines which you have done on this Forum by slagging off a good book without the decency to read it just to think that the review by a fellow officer must be TRUE.
Tally Ho Boys once more round the mess then!

I am outspoken though I am quick to appologise too, but you need to read this not mouth off any more.

[ratso]

Sorry P.S. 30 miler Royals ONLY sorry!

[James]

My copy arrived this morning and I havn't been able to put it down yet, should have it finshed by tonite. Anyone who hasn't read it yet, should definatley go out and get a copy!

[Brian E]

Ratso,
I wish you would say what you mean ,and not hold back!!!

30 mile for Royals only: due to unacceptable behaviour by a PONGO at this years event.