The IRA And The SAS

[Sully]

I return from hibernation to concur with my good friend Contractor

For what its worth I think there's some merit in the view that some aspects of the 'dirty war' waged by the security forces were no better (and no worse) than operations conducted by the "'ra" - the Franks Report bears this out so its a bit rich to monopolise the high ground. 'Needs must' though at the end of the day - some of the undoubtedly illegal operations were masterstrokes and some (the innocent Catholics fingered by the security forces to loyalist death squads) were shameful. But Maverick's last outburst is as one-sided and blinkered as the views he opposes.

I can't help thinking he was pushed into that offensive stance though. Group hug anyone?

[Dmanton300]

And there's no point replying. Your comments won't be read by me. I've had quite enough of this forum. You people lack the intellect to get into discussions with me.

Priceless!

This thread turned into a laugh a minute, didn't it?

[Contractor]

Sully you are awake

I think Maverick was always going to be backed into a corner on this subject faced by a pack of snarling wolves- we all carry a lot of baggage from NI.

However, very early in the thread Archie most politely warned him of this:

Maverick,

I respectfully suggest that you heed the advice of others and consider the facts of your statement.

Many of us have lost friends and colleagues over the water, some of whom were indeed killed off duty in circumstances where they constiuted no threat to anyone, and were simply killed because of who they were.

I think you should review your post before the forum turns on you, this is a very sensitive area and one which should be handled with a great deal of thought.
_________________
Archie.

Big hugs to all

[Sully]

I think he did to, and having met Archie I'd expect nothing less

Maverick, thanks for making me look a c**t for sticking up for your right to open a discussion and abusing it. I think you'd find that very very few of the modern 'players' are fit to tie the laces of Michael Collins or maybe Bobby Sands. Power corrupts and many of the men on the ground (who contributors here have had the dubious pleasure of meeting) were simple gobshites and toughs who found that they could swan around getting what they wanted and trap the local trouts by adopting the guise of the "'ra".

If you're still sneaking a look, add "The Informer" by Sean O'Callaghan to your reading list. He was an idealistic young man who was brave enough to pull away from the spiders web of the organisation described above and saved many lives.

For the record, I understand the strong feelings and, like many, have been touched by it myself.

[bongo]

What a hoofing start to weekend !!

Cheers maverick (not)

Either a spectacular bite everyone went for, or the ramblings of a pesky kid with no experience of the joys of NI, sunbeds and half bricks!

Nice to see every one trying to do the the balanced arguement routine followed by a stern ignoring!

Any chance of the more wordly wise cutting short some of the other threads which are just Junior racist b*****cks and pointlessness of the highest order.

Cheers fellas off to balance my Yin and Yang (probably down the Barbican)
toodle pip
bongo

[bongo]

Sully

A commendable effort but probably not worth the bother

bongo

[Archie]

Aye men,

I tried to warn young Mav, but such is the arrogance of youth.

Question: Would Mav have had the bottle to raise such an issue in a Mess or a Bar full of servicemen?

Answers on a used shell dressing to the usual address

[jamesthegren]

Hi,

Newbie hear, apologies for gatecrashing.

I think somebody mentioned earlier that most people on here carry some baggage from the province. I did my first tour in NI last year and can only imagine what some people must have experienced during the dark days of the troubles, as the only injuries we sustained were a bod breaking an ankle when jumping from a saxon.

I am sure that I am also biased, but I would not defend the indefensible if the
british army really was some neo-imperialistic force crushing the inoccent citizens of NI I would be the first to admit it. But our sole purpose is to defend the citizens of NI whether catholic or protestant, there are some great photos of the early days with the catholics welcoming squaddies as their saviours, but all we were trying to do was keep the two sides apart, with the poor army ending up being hated by both sides, which is sad really.

As regards the murder of troops, if we were patrolling armed up, and were engaged by PIRA or RIRA and they got the upper hand and dropped one of us, then ok fair enough, upsetting but arguably legit at the end of the day it is soldiering and you have a fighting chance.

BUT taking UNARMED 17 year olds out of a pub driving them into the country and then shootng them in the back of the head, is just not on and is cold blooded f@#k MURDER, ditto any bomb attack that targets unarmed or off duty troops.

And as regards the legitimacy of the army's prescence in the province, it is british territory, were the MAJORITY of the citizens wish to remain british, and it is our job to defend that right just like Gib or the Falklands, if the people one day wish to become independant than we would let them and hand NI over in millisecond, but that is not the case.

James

Apologies for spelling an grammer (i'm not dickens dont you know )

[Archie]

Well put James,

As you gather we do get more than our fair share of nobbers on here. Some are gonnabees, who get a lot of help, advice and support, some are wannabees, who mostly get tolerated, and then there are the starry eyed idealists, such as Mav, Condor et al.

Someone once said that all men are idealists until they grow up and become realists.

Reality is an 18 year old Marine having both his legs blown of at thigh level. Reality is a SNCO with 20 years service cracking up in a contact and being found crying under a Rover. Reality is having to be abused by 16 year old f**kwits whilst you defend their right to abuse you. Reality is when the boss says "Fix Bayonets". Our idealist contributors may never know what these situations feel like and for their sake I hope they never have to, that is work for realists.

[bongo]

A***hole going 5 pence-dustbin lids and a strong urge to swamp ones self is a feeling never forgotten!

NI should continue to be in our thoughts!!

Prior to GW2, 42 CDO landed in Belfast on a Hercules on fire (GEN DIT)

and left six months later with one member paralysed from the neck down and wheelchair bound for life and one young marine was returned to his family after commiting suicide with a 9mm.

This is a painful reminder of the continuing job of work going on in NI every day!

bongo

[Dagon]

these people fight for a cause. Not because they want a career and to see the world.
OK, so IRA have killed civillians. Have any of you 'experts' heard of the 'black and tans'? Or 'Bloody Sunday' or the carpet bombing of civilian towns in Germany?
The British aren't peacekeepers. They are there to keep the status quo which is an illegal occupation of a peaceful country.
I for one salute the 'ra!
Tiocfaidh Ar La!

A bit late to the party it seems but I do feel the need to point out that the amount of Irish people who actually subscribe to this sort of drivel is tiny.

And there's no point replying. Your comments won't be read by me. I've had quite enough of this forum. You people lack the intellect to get into discussions with me.

Yes, no one's quite able to lower themselves to your level.

[Twenty One]

One thing I have learned from the politics of Ireland is, don't discuss it.I can remember someone saying to me back in 1970 when you enter Belfast to do a tour, remember to put your clock/watches back 200 years,because that is where the the politics of the province is coming from!

[harry hackedoff]

Sticks, untill that happens, let`s just bin any future posts.

[Archie]

Hooray here comes the Cavalry in the shape of Harry and Sticky.

We tried tried being nice to Mav, honest we did, we tried reasoning with him, all to no avail.

As he is apparantley our intellectual superior he won't mind in the least if we semi evolved simians give him the order of the boot.

He will understand that we are all fascist thugs with our knuckles dragging behind us. He will doubtless spout forth about his victory here to his schoolchums at breaktime. Or maybe, just maybe, he will stop being a good for nothing student and get into the real world, make a living for a change and see what kind of a difference his existence actually makes.

But do we care?






No, Me neither!