Is it just me?

[El Prez]

This is an open forum, where debate, argument and discussion from all sides is welcome. What I want to write may be unpalatable to some, but being up front and honest I feel I need to express my views.
I have been wandering around the house for the past few days, unsure what I'm really thinking about, or even why I'm not my usual self. It's been akin to a bout of depression, incipient depression where it would not take much to tip me over the edge. Some of it has been my desire to write about the Gulf War and my thoughts, the rest has been about 'our' lads and girls out there. I present a stoical 100% supportive view towards the team fighting on our behalf in Iraq. I won't waiver from that, but I am less convinced now than before the war started that we have gone into this, or should I say, been taken into this, with the right motives. I'm probably really jumping the gun, as nothing has come out of the West yet, but I have yet to be shown the reason for this war. WMD, where?
The Royal Marines have once again displayed their competence, professionalism and courage in a dangerous and immensely difficult environment, as have all the other UK forces. I doubt there are any other conventional forces anywhere in the world to compare with them. I only wish they had the political masters they deserve. I feel extremely uneasy about the motives for this conflict and the way it is being resolved in 'our' name.
I'm not a peacenik apologist, I'm not a tree hugger or Buddhist. I'm someone who would dearly love some answers. I hope the ladies who have husbands out there will allow me, this once, to present what may appear an attempt at disunity. It is far from that. I want Royal home and in one piece. I am enormously proud of the lads work, but I feel very uneasy with the reasoning and actions of Blair and Bush. Yes Hussein is a mad dangerous tyrant, yes his people are suffering; but so is Mugabe, so is Kim Il Jong.
Blair is supposedly very anti our former Empire and the methods by which it was created. I see no difference between then and now. Dominate by force, rule by puppets or governors.
If I offend your sensibilities I apologise, but there has to be some questioning of the motive for our present action.

[Gary Treacher]

For the first time in recent history, The United Kingdom has invaded the soveriegn territory of another nation. One that has not been invaded itself and we are liberating it (i.e. that dispicable smelly nation just over the ENGLISH Channel). That makes me feel uneasy about the whole war. I will always support the Royal Marines, and the rest of the armed services.
Soddem might be a tyrant to his own people, but shouldn't they get rid of him if they don't like him, and if they can't do it alone wouldn't they ask?
I do have one question for Tiny Blurr though .......... How many votes does each dead marine get you in the next election ?

[FUBAR]

El Prez,

I concur with all you have said.

I also have this feeling that all is not right - will the UK be ostracised by Europe, the Arabs and the Muslims worldwide when this is all over ? What is Saddam cooking up for our forces when they reach Baghdad ? Is the life we had pre-Gulf war II going to be the same ? e.g. will it be safe to travel abroad again ? Will the food on our supermarket shelves be as plentiful as before? etcetera, etcetera !

How many more are going to be killed or maimed ? The wretched press want their bodycount in spades but pay very little attention to those that get wounded and then forgotten, still having to live with the effect of their wounds.

I really feel wrong inside about all this.

[Sully]

I've been sick to the teeth with the whole business lately. In a way I feel helpless sat here on my fat arse while lads are fighting for their lives (I don't think I'm alone in this). There's a lot of talk about 'supporting our lads' whatever that means. I think most people, peace protesters or not accept that the soldiers out there are doing their duty - as they always will and are doing it admirably.

Peace protesters are availing themselves of the free speech that our brothers and sisters are supposed to be fighting for and I've yet to hear anybody criticise the troops (thank god). It could be said that they're showing as much compassion for the troops and their loved ones by wanting them home from an imperial war which will cost us dearly and give us no benefit. The yanks have already started to hand out the 'spoils' with not a UK company in sight.

As for 'supporting' out troops the lack of decent equipment and food is common knowledge but there have been no signs of a rotation - which will obviously mean a mobilisation and 'lead-in' time. This isn't a 'degradation' exercise on Woodbury - this is serious. Lets hope that when our troops pull through this one that this isn't forgotten.

I think that what the soldiers are doing is 'right' - they are carrying out their duty to the highest standards as always. But I still believe that the war is unjust and wrong - as a civvie I have that luxury of free speech.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't offend anybody actually affected by the conflict but to the armchair warriors out there - perhaps you will get your run out one day - then again perhaps not.

God speed and safe return

[gash-hand]

I guess the main problem with this war is they way the UK has seemingly been seen to side with the US regardless of the opinions of the rest of the world.

We've been lucky as UK citizens as far as international relations go - we somehow manage to walk the tightrope between both opposing sides, whilst not getting tied down to any particular side, always viewing both sides of the argument and when it does finally breakdown being on the side that the rest of the world agrees should be followed - that doesn't seem to have happened this time, we've seem to have just blindly followed in the US's footsteps - I think that is a large part of the uncomfortable feeling most people are experiencing.

This war was waged as a means of removing the threat of global terror by Iraq sponsered Al-Queda terrorists, has that link been definetly established? I know there has been a lot of statements from politicians saying they have proof - but has an actual proof positive link been established? Then again even if it is proved you could always argue that the CIA has been carrying out this sort of activity for years - so whos right and whos wrong?

The only certain thing is that its the lads that have to go and sort the whole sorry mess out again.

[Jim T]

I have felt uneasy about the whole thing since Blair and Bush first started making noises about the clear threat presented by Iraq. I'm 100% behind all our servicemen and women, and it tears me apart inside everytime I hear that one of them has been killed or injured. However I do not feel that evidence has been presented to justify the invasion of another country.

I also feel for the civillians, especially the children, who are facing a very uncertain future. It must be terrifying to be on the receiving end of a B52 or Tomahawk missile. What makes things worse is that we have told these very people that we are there to save them from harm.

I'll come out on a limb, I do not think that our Forces should be in Iraq, full stop. Yes Saddam is an evil bastard, but he was sponsered, equipped, funded and trained by the USA in the late 70's early 80's ( Iran, Iraq war ).

We have ignored the UN and other member states of the EU, and for what? The chance to ride on the shirt tails of the US? The repercussions of our actions will haunt us for decades, with some saying that this is the begining of the 'new holy wars'.

Whatever my views I just want all our servicemen and women to return home safe. I also hope that they receive the help they WILL need, as the war will be with them for the rest of their lives.

Jim T

[Jesse]

Hello,

I think this issue is one that needed to be addressed.

As a future Royal Marine, I will not be interested in building George Bush's empire.

The link I provide here is to a legitimate photo of Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, shaking hands with Saddam Hussein, as if they were best mates.

It made me wonder what have the Americans dragged us in to. It's bad enough that American pilots are recklessly firing on British troops, and likely getting away with it.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm

[barbie]

I think that most of the reasons why this particular conflict is so dodgy have been expressed in previous postings, the fact that i feel we are aggressors in this case and the uncomfortable feeling we have been dragged along by the US. It has been worrying me that I feel like this because himself is over there, is it disloyal? meybe it is just a genuine feeling of unease at the whole thing?
The other reason is that with the media covering every firefight in detail I feel exhausted and I realise that not everyone is on the street being shot at all the time but it feels like it, other things seem irrelevant and it is hard to return to the real world and deal with other things.
Being a service brat and a wife i wouldn't swop any of it ,and back them all to the hilt in what they do as part of the whole but ..should they be there in the first place ? ..I'm not so sure this time

[Wully]

My father-in-law, who has been dead a long time, said many, many years ago that World War III would start with the Arab Nations. Could this be the beginning?

[Rotary Booty]

I'm not sure how 'recent' Gary's recent history is classed as, but in my lifetime we have invaded a country, and without the sanction of the UN. Even the French were with us, but there were many politicians and countries who weren't. I lost a squad mate , killed by 'blue on Blue'. It had been 5 months since our King's Squad pass out.
However, ships sail safely through the Suez Canal, and they achieved that.
I know where Rob is coming from, because I have been there over the last few weeks. However, I wonder if it's just a natural reaction to continuous bad news. If the coalition had met virtually no resistance, the crowds had come out to greet them, and Bagdad had fallen as a 'knock on' victory. If WMD had been found, and prisoners released, we would be cheering, and George and Tony feted. It would be judged that they had done 'the right thing', even though 'the means' were a bit dodgy.

All that's happened is the 'outcome' has not happened yet.

I went into many countries at the behest of the politicians, and I never questioned the right or wrong of it. I look back now and wonder though!I'm sure the guys in the Gulf have an opinion on what's happening in a way I never even felt I was entitled to express. I think they are the ones who will have to tell us whether it was all worth it.

Maybe we should wait until it's over before we make too many judgements, and if I don't end up voting for Tony Blair, (because he may have got it wrong), I most certainly won't be voting for Robin Cook and George Galloway, who definitely got it wrong!

[Sully]

I don't think you're being at all disloyal Barbie. What started to bother me was the fact that Baloney seems to have pulled off some kind of sleight of hand by suggesting that any criticism of him and Bush is a criticism of the troops now that its started. It seemed to me that this has been accepted generally and anybody who has misgivings about the war is some kind of traitor and should justify themselves.

I kept my mouth shut as I'd hate for someone like yourself to think that the troops don't have any support (which clearly isn't true) It must be difficult enough for you as it is. I hope that 'himself' is safely home soon. Whatever happens, our troops have 'won' by showing what they can do against all odds - useless government, bizarre US assumption that the Iraqis would play ball etc..

All the best

Sully

[Sully]

Derek's is longer than mine but he finished quicker (oops, sorry...wrong chat forum)

[Sully]

Seriously though, there's a lot of soul searching because we genuinely care. Jesse - keep an inquiring mind mate (put it on hold while you're at CTC though ). After all, bootnecks are the 'thinking soldier'

[Gary Treacher]

I am sorry Derek, I forgot Suez. Please read this slowly as I've beaten myself up for forgetting my Corps history. I have taken myself back to October 28th 1664, and have started lessons again.
I was a 70's and 80's Marine and some of that is lost in the mists of Union Strasse.

[Andy O'Pray]

The British have a history in this region, which should have told them not to get involved in this conflict. The Americans have no such history and are not interested in anyone elses experiences. At the end of WW1 the Middle East had been wrenched from the control of the Ottoman Empire. The British and French sat down and carved the area up into little countries, some based on history, some based on tribal areas, some based on interests of the west. Puppet regimes were then installed to control these countries.

Two years ago the world seemed to be a reasonably stable place, until this present American administration was installed, I am loathed to say elected. This administration has come in with it's own agenda, which completely disregarded what history has shown and the views of other nations. This administration completely disregards the facts and the truth if it is going to interfere with their own self interests.

Based on the aforementioned, I could never and still don't understand why Blair became so involved with the Bush administration. Trying to make some sense of it. I gave Blair the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he was going to push the USA towards a settlement of the Palastinian situation. I was glad to read today that the British government will not get involved with any conflict with Syria and Iran.

Like most on this site, once Blair had committed our troops, I have to give them my support. They are doing as ordered and doing it very professionally.

I will quote Senator Ted Kennedy, not a favourite of mine. "This is the wrong war at the wrong time for the wrong reasons".

This will not please our American cousins. The world is being controlled by a madman and it is not Saddam Hussein. Working under the pretence that we are going to bring democracy to the Middle East is a pipe dream. Another quote from the late Shah of Iran whaen aked about his iron fisted policies towards any opposition in the country. "If they want to be treated like Swedes, let them act like Swedes". All of us who have served in the Middle East know how these people think and live and it is not the same as us.

Aye - Andy.