Women at War

[K24io]

Final post on this as I've made my viewpoint pretty clear.

My experience of women in the forces, female friends who joined, some who trained to join but didnt + I had female superior officers at UAS.

Calling 26 year females girls is incredibly patronising. I'm 19 and you wouldn't call me boy.

You is both the singular and plural, I making a specific point regarding you (singular).

If someone can't control their own actions (Ie can't resist temptation) then they have a serious problem and should not be in a position of authority within the forces.

If you are married and you can't work with females then you shouldn't be married. I was not stating that married personnel should be banned form the forces, think you went off on a tangent there!

Criminal acts of terrorism by the enemy should not dictate our recruiting policy. If it does then we have lost by giving into terrorism.

Pregnancy is a problem, so is recruitment and ruling out half the population from serving within our armed forces would be step backward!

The previous posts had described female members of the armed forces as a problem therfore it could be fair to say certain people viewed them as a liability or burden. They are not, and by describing them as so it is not beneficial to the female members of our armed forces serving and doing an excellent job at war.

Re: me. I'm assuming you are stating I'm on the outside as I'm a recruit and not as I'm in RMR, if you were then I'm sure someone else will take you to task on it. I wear the same beret and cap badge as you and bar injury I would be onto commando training at the moment. I am still part of the unit, albeit an insignificant part, I do not consider myself to be outside.

Don't forget lads, we are talking about snakes with tits here.

[Guest]

what you all seem to forget is that man is the hunter

[voodoo sprout]

Erm, isn't this the same as the "women in the SAS" thread? In any case I may as well just paste my opinion on the matter from there like the lazy bugger I am. Also while there are obvious differences between SF and regular units, the same principles apply.

1) Unit cohesion. It is a biological fact that people of differing ender will distract each other, and affect the other both mentally and physically; and anything which distracts the team from the job is bad. Yes, they are professional enough to ignore who they are woking with (in terms of unnecessary attention), but no amount of professionalism can overcome that. And things really start going wrong if a relationship does flair up between two members, and there is no garuntee that would not happen.

2) Instinct. Men will naturally be more inclined to assist women, particularly when they ar i danger. The experience of Israeli SF is well known; the men would would make poor judgements when women were in trouble, while they would act normally if it was a man. And Israeli SF are accpeted as among the best in the world, so you could expect the same to happen with any other unit including UKSF.

3) Respect. Most people who women would work with in UKSF would probably give them due respect, but women would operate a lot with people outside of UKSF. A common role of UKSF is to train, train with, or operate with, foreign toops. Especially in the middle East (where as it happens, a lot will be happening in the nar future), women will simply not be respected by a lot of people of other nations and cultures, particularly the likes of Arabs. Respect is critical when working with other units, many of whom may have paid for you to train them, and the presence of women could seriously inhibit completing the job in hand. And even if women are not part of the package, the fact that the unit has women as troops wll reduce the unit standing throughout the world with all the implications that follow.

You can say that the reasons are simply mens fault, but even if it all all down to sexism, they are valid. When it comes down to it, the other 300 men are more important than you. Whatever the reason, if a woman causes problems, then they are causing problems. If a woman is part of a team, and due to the men not paying enough attention to the job because of that they fail, the task is still failed. It does not suddenly become a success because "it was the mens fault for not concentrating". After all, you could say it's the fault of the men themselves for not being able to fly. So on the next HALO, forget the parachutes, just chuck them out with a bergen and if they die it's their own fault. Would that work?

EDIT: And the MoD hasn't got enough money to make castration a requirement for selection, so don't try that one .

And regards to rape, that aplies equally to men and women so I would discount that. With pregnancy, while that is a problem, I thik it sn't somethign which should seriously affect decisions, being as it is a basic function. However, it should be regarded with only a standard level of support, for example the woman i question should make an effort to return to duty as soon as possible, leaving child care to a partner or reliable family member (and if she hasn't got one then she's a liability and should be discharged). In regards to fitness, as I said that's not an issue as long as they reach the same standards as the men, if only 1% of the female population can achieve that then only 1% of the female population can get in, simply enough.
The main problem with womeon at the moment is the political correctness barrier to rational thinking. Different standards etc arose when women were regarded as weaker, and had to be treated sdifferently. However, it is not seen as PC to level the playing field, and the US provides a good if worrying case study: dual standards ruining unit effectiveness, NCO's and officers unable to speak out for fear of being branded sexist and losing their jobs, and general civilianisation of the forces. Not a pretty picture, and one we should avoid at all costs.

[TexasRanger]

Sums it up for me. Nice touch.

[The JaCkAl]

Do you revise this stuff before you write, or is this off the top of your head? That stuff about the typhoon2000....

[Kristina]

I have recently joined this forum and was interested to read the different views expressed in this thread about whether women should be allowed to join the armed forces. For the last two years I have been thinking about applying to special forces/intelligence and despite opposition from my partner and family who unfortunately share the majority view stated here, I am finally going to do something about it and apply! I do not expect any special treatment and would be horrified to get through as part of some diversity initiative. I would only want to be accepted if I met the same high standard along with every other recruit regardless of gender. With regard to some of the points made above (particularly by Texas Ranger) yes there are risks and there can also be distraction/tension in environments dominated by one gender but this is no excuse to exclude people. I currently work on the trading floor of a city bank as one of 4 women traders alongside 150 male traders and naturally there is tension as my female colleagues and myself have discovered, however this can can be overcome if you're professional and concentrate on the job at hand.

[El Prez]

Go for it K, my brat is a Heli engineer, and she doesn't expect or receive any preferential treatment. Just the respect she deserves for doing a top job. Don't worry about the Ranger, a pure wannabee, with a twisted mind set.

[barbie]

Like NST ,I have held my breath, bitten my tongue, and kept away from this thread for as long as possible.

Go for it Kristina, If you can compete on equal terms and succeed you will
encourage others and eventually the subject will come to a natural end.

Male midwives were in the same boat a few years ago, and although the problems were different the result will be the same.

Good luck

[El Prez]

Male midwives were in the same boat a few years ago, and although the problems were different the result will be the same.

I was going to wait and tell Ms K about my Gynaecological Services Institute at a later more convenient date. However, this premature exposure causes me to remind the ladies on the forum that all manner of adjustments can be made within a short space of time, at Okehampton, the time saved when you don't use anaesthetic! Mangle, will be otherwise engaged, but Nurse and hopefully Herr Gass, the anaesthetist will be travelling.

[Kristina]

Thanks for the messages of support! Curious about this Gynaecological Services Institute though.... Cheers, Kristina

[El Prez]

Curiosity, one of my favourite emotions; and the primary reason for commencing my studies in Theoretical Gynaecology. My resits are next month, hopefully things will fare better than last time.

[Guest]

Hey Mr Prez, into the gynaecology thingy eh?

In the next life I'm coming back as a gynaecologist, honest I have worked with a bunch of these in the past, so nothing changes.........!

All you gals wanting to be in the front line, do what you want to do, didn't stop the Israeli's ...........

[barbie]

[/quote]

at Okehampton, the time saved when you don't use anaesthetic! Mangle, will be otherwise engaged, but Nurse and hopefully Herr Gass, the anaesthetist will be travelling.[/quote]

Haggen Dass icecream is delicious but without the universal translator or the origonal code i'm lost,

THANK GOD FOR NURSEY............suggest she uses section 136 to make arrangements for detention asap

[boyze]

Dearest Kristina...even if you passed the selection - which you wouldnt - there isnt hope in hell I would take you in my patrol. Nothin personal but the front line is no place for women for obvious reasons already made by others on this site. Why these ladies even think they stand a chance. Must be all these shows on SAS lately planting silly ideas in your heads. Even if your good enough why should the forces invest all that money in your training and then you bugger off and get pregnant and can't work for a few years. Theere are good support roles in the forces you can do if your interested but you certainly don't belong in SF and god willing you'll never be allowed in.

[gash-hand]

Isn't 14 Int SF?

I know they come under DSF control so I would assume they are.