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RAF 'Security'

General discussions on joining & training in the Royal Air Force.
K24io
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Post by K24io »

Not extracting the urine but why would MoD give such a task to the regiment?

A difficult task requiring SF tactics and training - small group, behind lines = SF or at the very least elite forces.

the Regiment are purely defensive and are not the first line of defence.

Surely it would be more cost efficent to have the training at least carried out by existing units like the SAS. If you check on this forum you'll see I'm not one to suggest the SAS/SBS as a solution to everything but this is really their territory.

I knew RAF REG were heavily deployed, 603 Sqn ape was on here looking for dagger badges as he was ex RM and didnt want mixed up. :wink:
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Post by tony dean »

K24io,
Your ignorance is laughable mate. You dont seem to understand what the regiment do. The regiment are purely defensive?!, not even first line defence?! puulleazzee! :roll:

The work of at the very least elite forces?.......which is exactly what the regiment is....and exactly what they have been doing unoffically for years.


I didnt take you for a sun reader mate. Shame really! 8)
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Post by K24io »

Easy tiger Easy :wink:

Sorry mate but the first line of defence would be the front line, and I'd have to say the Regiment don't spend much time there on ops do they? What was the last offensive Regiment operation then?

As your own units web-site states "The RAF Regiment has 6 Field Squadrons, these are responsible for the defence of RAF installations from attack by enemy ground forces. One of the Field Squadrons, No 2 Squadron, has a parachute capability"

OR would

"The RAF Regiment is a well equipped, mobile and heavily armed organisation providing Force Protection for the Royal Air Force."

Defend and protection would indicate a defensive role as would "RAF Regiment units are providing ground defence for the force". from the MoD.


Perhaps your defination of elite differs mate,

The reg site states " The Royal Navy has the Royal Marines, the RAF has the Regiment" Sorry mate but you can't compare. I'm not so much of a sun reader as to start the "our training is longer than yours" crap!

I respect the regiment for what it is, an effective force providing defensive capability, I don't consider it to be elite. If it were elite why would you have the option of doing all arms course? I don't see many RM ads doing P-Company.( There are Para's doing all arms but not many). Indeed you do have a Para unit as well, but they haven't taken over many airfields have they?

I wouldn't put RM doing this task either, leave it to special units better trained in small unit tactics.

We'll agree to disagree mate, leave it to the powers that be to decide.
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Post by El Prez »

Tony my little monkey in the race for evolution to Ape; if you accept that the Regt protect the RAF aircraft when deployed, please be good enough to tell me exactly how far behing the FEBA (Forward Edge of Battle Area) one expects the smartly dressed Crab Air pilots to be. Within 25 miles they'd be meat. Possibly 50 miles back.
Just a gentle question, when was the last time a rock fired his bang stick in anger? Did he connect? When did the Rocks ever suffer casualties from enemy fire? Getting harder to answer aren't they, you just stick with Crab Mythology for novice wizards and we'll bang on with the truth. 8)
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Post by voodoo sprout »

Tony, or anyone for that matter, I would greatly appreciate ANY information on an RAF CSAR unit - as I said the last time it was mentioned, I may well reconsider whether to join the RM's if this turns out to be a promising prospect :). And while I agree the RAF regiment aren't elite (I'd put them between the regular amy and the elites), Tony specifically said "new unit" - there is nothing to say they won't have superior training/selection to the regular reg, in fact I would expect it. It would be in the same way that while the RM's ar elites, the specialists within them (BPT) are often considered SF.
In my opinion, they'll probably be along the lines of either the para pathfinders, the USAF Para rescue Jumpers (best in the business by the way), or somewhere in between. So I wouldn't worry about quality - that can almost cetainly be assured :).

Nb: if you don't agree with me, Tony will undoubtedly insert bananas up your posterial orifice until you do :).
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Post by ABI »

Had a couple of lads from the RAF Reg on my para course, always seemed to be trying that little bit too hard to be 'accepted' kept banging on about their selection to get into 2 Sqn being as hard as P-Coy etc etc.

Recall one ex-2 Sqn lad joined Para Reg because he was fed up with stagging on at various airfields. You can dress it up any way you like but defending an airstrip 'wherever' it happens to be is just that.

I don't think the RAF Reg have the offensive capability to sieze and hold ground in the same way as Para Reg or RM.
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Post by El Prez »

Recall one ex-2 Sqn lad joined Para Reg because he was fed up with stagging on at various airfields. You can dress it up any way you like but defending an airstrip 'wherever' it happens to be is just that.
Tony I didn't pay him to write that, or coerce him. It just came out of the blue. I told you yonks ago that airfields are Regt property, and get really windy, wet and boring after a while. Please don't tell me that grabbing armfuls of soggy peace protesters off fences is tactically challenging. :lol: I'm sure most of them smell worse than Hobbits. 8)
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Post by ABI »

El Prez

Thanks for the £50 quid
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Post by tony dean »

The only one whos made sense on this page is voodoo (cheques in the post) :) .

K24io, would that be non front line ops like when teams helped set up defensive postions in bagram aiport in assistance of the SBS in afghanistan? or para drop ops in sierra leone and the setting up of forward operation sites in Iraq do you?

I dont Know what your definition of elite is, but if a highly trained, highly mobile and well armed specialist unit is able to operate anywhere in the world on 24 hours notice, then its elite.
"Leave it to special trained units who operate in small unit tactics". This is one the regiments main roles!!! how you can say otherwise is beyond me!!

Or as the website also says........"Imagine parachuting into a hostile airfield to clear it for use" front line ops Id say mate? www.rafcareers.com/gunners/index.html

When did he last fire Rob? try sierra leone (dont know about afghan, but hey, im a pebble monkey they dont tell me everything! ) And when was the last time RM was in a firefight? Not much in afghan was it? :wink:

Abi, "I don't think the RAF Reg have the offensive capability to sieze and hold ground in the same way as Para Reg or RM"?!! Sieze and holding airbase is the regt job!! we even have our own armour. Does RM? or do they bring in pongos from the household cavalry 8) .
As for your "recall a guy"... would it counter that if I said "i know some guy......ex bootie...real crap....blah blah :wink: "

And rob (again) those long haired hippys clinging to the fence, well, in the words of our own nco's if they wanted to break into a base, it wouldnt be hard, but then thats nothing to do with the regt!

Yours, proud to be a pebble, tony :D
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Post by ABI »

Tony

Pull your neck in mate, the point I was making ref holding ground was the fact that 16 AA Brigade have two Battalion strength in the airborne role with all the supporting back up at anyone time, including armour. RAF Reg do not have that capabilty. This is excluding the Inf Battalion in the air-landing role, currently Royal Irish Regt.

When I was in 5 Airborne Brigade (as was) we spent a lot of time training for casevac / out of area type situations which always required the taking of an airfield or landing strip. This was done by TALO or para insertion everytime.

As for knowing a bloke who came over to Para Reg from 2 Sqn, he is a serving Sgt in 2 Para as we speak I can give you his details if you wish via a PM. Why you think I would make something up like that I don't know.

Given the current situation all this pissing contest stuff is a waste of effort, to be honest I couldn't give a flying f@#k whether you believe me or not.
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Post by Artist »

Wotcha Tony

My but you've got noughty since joining up me old mate!

Hows it going?

Don't you want to talk to us on the RM forum anymore then?

Still a variety a loons, young un's, old uns, etc, etc,

aye steve evans
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Post by El Prez »

Oi Dean, there's an airfield at Basra, presently being cleared by Royal so those nice boys from Crab Regt Enterprises can come and set up their field I'M A SCAMMER SPAMMER!!! and emporium. (The emporium was a shower block, but it was never used) 8)
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Post by Beefy Bayonet »

Tony, ABI

Guys, I have watched your thread and maybe I could help you out, in short,the relevant units are as good as that operation, task, exercise goes bearing in mind the restrictions imposed by higher authorities and role or task the unit has been given, believe it or not, we all have a part to play, well I did do.... you two are focussed on the individual units and pardon the phrase pissing in the wind, you all need to look at the bigger picture, Tony as you go through your career and reach NCO status this will become more apparent.

I would like to clarify a few things for all parties, this is not from a book it is what I know and have been through..... :D

A small bit of background about me

I served with RAF Regiment for over 13 years, have been to many places, exercises, ops, NI, x3 Uniform and Non Uniform Tours, BOS, Jungle training to name but a few... the Raf Regt as I remember, about 4 years ago, the role changed drastically literally overnight, they were originally tasked for airfield defence and to some degree is still true today, Rapier missiles and something else, but within the RAF Regiment there are more individual squadrons and units such as 2 Sqn which I am going to contrite on because I served there for over 6 years.. Who’s role was out of area operations, working very closely with yourself ABI in conjunction with 5AB and the special forces, particularly in Scotland I am not going to go in depth here.... coming to the point of CSAR, this was handed to the RAF Regiment some time ago, by 22 and I was involved with the trials, we worked as a Sqn in the mountains of Scotland with a RM advisor, to put another point forward, the Regiment are not elite, as soon as you call yourself elite, then you put yourself on a pedestal ready to be knocked off... but I will put some facts forward for you digest.

The Raf Regiment have a number of men attached to 22... quite a few considering the numbers it has as whole.

A 22 Troop Officer ran a Raf Regt Sqn

The Colonel of 22 on two occasions was RAF Regt.

The Raf Regt... have been in Ireland since the troubles began and were arguably the first in, because of the airfield defence... a D notice was put in place to stop this being broadcasted.

The Raf Regiment have served in all theatres of operations some times as advisers rather than whole sqns.. but they have been there in some capacity, most recently Afghanistan and now the Gulf.. they were tasked with some sensitive tasks… which unfortunately I can not tell you about, I am sure when the conflict is over things will come out…. Please don’t ask.


The Raf Regiment were involved with rescuing British hostages in a particular country and worked with some members of Special Forces to extract them.

The list goes on........

The Raf Regiment was formed in 1942 (Same as the Special Air Service)… and they have strong ties even today.

In summary, I am not having a go at anybody just putting some considerations forward, I have had the pleasure to work with Royals and the Rarge alike, at the end of the day guys, we look after each other... remember the big picture.

The Regiment, and this my opinion only, suffers because in relation to other units it is small and not a great deal is known about it.. That is why people have commented the way they have... ABI I am sure that we have been in the same air space, Purple Star comes to mind, and I know the sergeants who were on secondment to Para Reg, anyway enough of my waffle, if I can help anybody being bias here, with Raf Regiment although I am slightly out of date, but keep my ears to the ground then I will.

All the best... through endeavour... stay tight

Beefy
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Post by ABI »

Beef

Purple Star, was that the big excercise in the States in the early 90's if it was I'd been in civvie street a couple of years by then. Ref the former 2 Sqn bloke I'd referred to earlier, I believe he left the RAF and then joined the Army as opposed to transfer between forces, he was in 3 Para originally late 80's then 2 Para.

Must admit I don't recall seeing many RAF Regt blokes on attachment to Para Reg in my time, only the Air Liason team who formed their own sub-unit within the Brigade.

With regards to the CSAR teams the first I'd heard of them was on this forum so just goe's to show you how out of date I am!!
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Post by jbs »

For all those who ask if the RAF regt have ever been in action,I would just like to say check out the Aden sites also the Trucial Oman.
I am not going to get into a slanging match with anyone over this matter,but yes I have fired my 'bang stick'on numerous occasions and not only at things that dont shoot back
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