the war

[terryrat]

I wonder if you lads and lasses would like to comment on this little item. The fact is foreign troops are engaged in imperial (economic empire building) wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as forces were also in the now destroyed Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. In Afganistan the Taliban were attacked as the government simply and plainly because they wouldn't agree to US government demands to allow them to build an oil pipeline through their country, that is a matter of documented fact, attacking the country because they wouldn't surrender Osama Bin Ladin was just a false excuse created entirely for western public consumption. Iraq was again attacked for economic reasons, questions we could ask is where did the Billions of dollars (around 21 Billion) of Iraqi wealth go? It was looted by the US, taken from the country or simply paid to US companies providing over inflated third rate services to Iraq. Iraq had a health service that was the envy of the Middle East, it has been destroyed essential medical supplies are not getting to the hospitals meaning evermore civilians are dying from preventable conditions.

In regard to the insurgents in Iraq, we have Israeli forces training Kurdish forces in the North, American troops commanding the centre and British troops commanding the south. There was no valid reason to attack Iraq, our troops should be out, the people aren't getting their destroyed services reconnected by the very countries responsible for disconnecting (or rather bombing them) in the first place, as happened in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan previously we've been fooled (yes cleverly fooled) into accepting false excuses for attacking countries entirely for economic and political advantage to western nations. The idea that Sunnis and Shites (who've lived together for decades and intermarried) are engaged in tit-for-tat murder and mayhem might play very nicely into western public consumption and help those soldiers believe naively they're there to keep the peace

Our troops ain't peace keepers their protecting fraudsters, pirates and looters from the west and the people could not be worse off if the British and American troops along with all the co-conspiratoral military forces were withdrawn, they weren't invited in and they're not keeping the peace, they're abusing and killing civilians, in the process British military and soldiers are being dehumanised and brutalised in the process as all wars do to troops, so we'll be facing the after effects in this country in the coming decades in families and communities when these brutalised troops return and are demobilised.

And no I don't 'cheer' or support our troops, they are invading and occupying forces and killing civilians in offensive and economically motivated wars, they're not conscripts, they volunteer, including the part timers to carry weapons and are trained to kill and follow orders blindly, without question. Additionally they've engaged in actual documented terrorism upon civilians, including numerous cases of torture, abuse and humiliation.

[Tab]

Now if these countries can train terrorist and send them out to kill and maim people because of their god or your life style does not compare with theirs, what should we do, just sit here and take it. Just listen to radical Muslim clerics demanding a holy war in this country so that they can have heir own separate Islamic state in Britain. Do you agree with this sort of thing, and some where along the line action will have to be taken to curb these people. Also our troops go where they are sent and are under orders on what to do and are doing it our name. You voted this government in and know doubt agreed with most of it's policies so fight the government and NOT the troops

[Hands on]

There not conscripts they volunteer, including the part timers.

You may volunteer to join military service but once your in it's your job, and you have little or no say as to where you are going to go, or what you are going to do. And that's coming from a part timer.

Most of us know what the real reasons are, and I know lots of people who do not agree with what is going on at the moment in both countries, but have still gone and done a bloody good job and these people stand to lose more then you, and some of them do.

I don't know If you have done a tour in any of these places but I am guessing you have not.

And no I don't 'cheer' or support our troops,

Lets hope you never need are help then.

[Banch]

Terrytwat you are an idiot of the highest order.
Not very clever to come onto a forum spouting about your lack of support for troops stuck out in a dump doing the best job they possibly can under difficult circumstances.
Considering there are people on here that are currently serving in the region, have family members serving in the region or are soon to be deployed, your comments are at the least thoughtless.
And yes before you say it, you are entitled to your opinion, and this is mine!!!

[terryrat]

Banch i didnt write this i merely put it on here from another site i use, i was just interested in your views, also if you look you will see my name is infact Terryrat i would prefer to be called that even if you dont agree with the statement, i have my own thoughts on this and as i said i was looking for others views on here

[Frank S.]

Right. Before any more jump on the Terryrat bashing train, debate this thoughtfully and without personal attacks.
He does raise a number of points which, while they have been brought up before over several threads, bear considering again given the phase we're in in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Step back and consider how frustrating it is to see UK and US troops engaged in the "unplanned" aftermath of both campaigns. We're in an open ended phase now, seems to me.
Local police and military (Afghani and Iraqi) are performing spottily at best, Karzai and Musharaf are blaming each other for not doing enough, al-Maliki in iraq has virtually no control over "his" government and got in power in large part because Sadr "allowed" it. Sadr himself is reportedly seeing splinters within his own militias. Iraqis, particularly professionals continue to flee the country in growing numbers.

Our troops are caught in the middle of all this and turning over control of both countries to their governments, such as they are, is not a strategy, it is an objective. How to reach said objective continues to elude us.
So. As Tab said we may blame our governments but we MUST support our troops. It bears remembering what happened to the French military following Algeria.

[terryrat]

Thankyou frank i must admit to being quite wound up about all that too and yes i have been in a conflict situation so i have some idea about what goes on.I must say that i was not helped by the news today that Pakistan are indeed helping Taliban by allowing them free movement across the border which i suppose i have always known that was the case .I shall let this run for a while before i go back to answer the original posting of my thread

[Hands on]

terryrat if this is not your views I do apologese, I thought I was replying to the person who wrote the post's.

[Frank S.]

Well, Musharaf was in the States hawking his new book deal with Simon & Shuster and Blair was also here (in my city) a couple months ago (?) shaking hands in private meetings to plan his next career move after he leaves office.
So their priorities are clear, they're personal and above anything else.

[terryrat]

Appreciated Hands on i did think about saying that it wasnt my view but im not sure how the reaction would have turned out but i do think that the whole situation needs looking at and as Frank S says Billyliar(Blair) is only thinking of himself as per usual

[Rogue Chef]

Ahoy there!
Have a read of this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... =NEWS&ct=5

Who knows how accurate it is, but it is harrowing reading if it is only 10% true.

[Paratrooper01]

Terryrat,

It should be everyones duty in every country to support its troops. We are out here getting shot at and killed on a daily basis for our country, and the best you can say is that we are invading and killing civilians??

Firstly we were invited here by the Afghan government to help stablilise the country by destroying the taliban. The oil pipeline is an interesting theory, and i have to say if it is true i agree with it. do you drive a car or use the bus? if so it is in your interest aswell to have a supply of oil to your country.

How bout you wind your neck in and think of other people for once.

Saying you hate the armed forces is not wise on a pro military website.

[Rogue Chef]

Ahoy there!

Take a peek!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kzPpjnZToXo& ... ted&search

Awesome!

There are also some other very interesting clips!

[terryrat]

Paratrooper01
Thanks for your reply Paratrooper01 and if you read the whole thing you would have seen that i never wrote it, it was a piece that was written on another site i use this particular site is mostly civvies with just a smatering of ex members the reason that i put it on here was so i could judge opinions. Personally i think the troops are getting stitched up over there maybe you can tell me different i can only go by what info i get

[terryrat]

ROUGE CHEF thanks for that man was quite a good piece of filming